May 03, 2016

“Chutzpah” — Bombardier says Liberals’ bailout offer not good enough

Rebel Staff
 

I guess Bombardier hasn't heard the expression "beggars can't be choosers." Aaron Wudrick, Federal Director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, explains why Bombardier has the nerve to tell the government they want even more money this time.

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commented 2016-05-04 20:00:16 -0400
Another Quebec company clearly advocating being “entitled to their entitlements”. Wonder how much of that tax money will find its way into brown paper bags passed over restaurant tables to waiting Liebranos?!
commented 2016-05-04 19:36:32 -0400
To suggest that pre-Reagan was communism or socialism is ramped up and phony outrage when it was called capitalism by everyone. Do not forget that everything works in stages and you cannot even comprehend that. I cannot help you because the fact is even Trump is a protectionist. Does that make him communism or socialist? The use of markets, the law of value and the profit motive is the very definition of capitalism and that would be kept in a protectionist and mixed economic state.

The workers owning the means of production is the very definition of socialism. Banning private property completely is communism. You need to learn your terms and you prove to be idiotic by not knowing this.

Crony capitalism is still capitalism and it is state capitalism which is not socialism. Socialism means what I stated with reduced private industry. You need private industry and public industry in capitalism in a protectionist state. Talk about uninformed.

I guess to you Trump would be considered a national-socialist or a right wing nationalist.

I am a centrist nationalist.

You clearly lack knowledge of the spectrum and about what each ideology means when coupled with certain systems.

People even suggested that NAFTA at the time would remove thousands of jobs per year. That has been happening and the links I provided from the Canadian Action party suggest how terrible free trade has been and why it either has to be renegotiated or scrapped.

You have been listening to Levant and his gang for so long you have bought all their propaganda.

You are not even remotely open-minded and as such it would be a waste to talk with an ultra-partisan in the tank member of the neocon Conservative party of Canada which is ultra-globalist and a fascist party which as defined by Mussolini means when government is combined with the corporations and why the other name for fascism is corporatism.
commented 2016-05-04 02:02:36 -0400
John S socialist markets lead to elitism more than capitalism , there are more well off people under capitalism than there are under socialism and communism. And capitalism pays for programs, governments do not.
commented 2016-05-04 02:00:15 -0400
John S free trade had many successes as well idiot, your commy thinking is sheer lunacy. A government picking a winner does not make for prosperity and corporations invest many billions, where do you think the Iphone came from and drugs cost billions to develop. Your links are someones opinion , and the government made the high interest rates happen ,not the oil crisis. Those rates rose in the 80’s under the commie Trudeau playing favorites with the provinces. You are pretty lost as usual.
commented 2016-05-03 17:49:12 -0400
Does anyone remember Petro Canada.
That was a real dud!
Someone should follow that money trail!

DJBT
commented 2016-05-03 17:36:00 -0400
Liberals …liars and thieves always have been always will be …this is what is forgotten every time these bastards get in power. We will go along now for a few years being force fed their shit until even the liberal supporters get sick of it. We will then elect a conservative government and everyone will be happy for a few years as we get back on track and about the time we get back in the good numbers liberals will decide they are not getting enough free handouts ,it will be said its not fair the leader is a tyrant , he is bullying me etc… and the pouting and crying will start all over again . The majority of the country will then cherry pick everything they feel the conservatives have done wrong meanwhile completely ignoring all the good and positive things done. Once again we will throw the right person for the job out and put in another lying, cheating, stealing liberal government and start this shit all over again. This is simply a true fact ..history backs it. My opinion on why this always happens is because A) we actually have more liberals than conservatives in Canada B) It appears liberals have a short memory …So I have been Reading along doing my best to understand every ones points and for the most part it seems some strong points have been made …I believe Peter along with a few other regular contributors of this site have the smarts and know of what they speak, but in the end what I have learnt over the years is even though I am not the highest educated person on this site is that….LIBERALS ARE LIARS AND THIEVING CHEATS THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE!!!! …..and it is just amazing to me how many people in this country TIME AND TIME AGAIN forget this fact…..crazy!!
commented 2016-05-03 16:28:31 -0400
French kebek libs

Welfare bums

Nearly the entire province is nothing but trash
commented 2016-05-03 14:36:57 -0400
Get Google Chrome and Adblock Plus.
commented 2016-05-03 13:56:00 -0400
1. The Libranos have always been about corporate welfare, Bombardier being one of their favourites
2. The whole idea of bail outs naturally leads to political corruption. Needless to even elaborate on that it is so self evident
3. Government is terrible at picking winners. For example, under communism Poland had plenty of tractors but no replacement parts so productivity was terrible. Government almost has a knack at picking the worst private sector investments
4. Doing so is a destruction of wealth, as scarce financial resources are chasing enterprises that will lose money
commented 2016-05-03 13:27:21 -0400
John, this discussion is going to have to take place some other time as I must go.
commented 2016-05-03 13:25:16 -0400
“1. Cancel or renegotiate all Free Trade agreements that are not in the best interest of Canada " - problem here is that in order to negotiate deals that are entirely in Canada’s favour, there will be deal. Why would a country enter into a deal that only favours the other country? All deals have to have give and take.

2. Return to Fair trade deals and rebuild our Manufacturing sector - “Fair trade deals” must be defined clearly and rebuilding our manufacturing sector will require kicking out Wynne and lowering electricity costs to start with.

3. Restore our technological edge in manufacturing by offering tax incentives to companies who conduct Research and Development projects. - already being done.

4. Spur the economy with Bank of Canada funded infrastructure projects - Why the Bank of Canada?

5. Reinstate a National Energy program to refine our own fuels - The NEP had nothing to do with the refinement of our oil into fuels. It had one purpose and one purpose only, to rape Alberta of its oil royalty money. As for refining oil, New Brunswick already has a refinery and DESPERATELY wants Alberta oil, but Notley, Trudeau, and that Quebec asshole are blocking the pipeline. Building a refinery in Alberta is not a good idea for a plethora of reasons.

6. End corporate lawsuits over profit losses - Can you give an example of this?

7. By eliminating the need for our government to make interest payments to the privately owned banking system, this money can be better used to fund real economic growth within our manufacturing sectors and for all areas of our economy. - Please explain this point.
commented 2016-05-03 13:23:27 -0400
What I meant by libertarianism is there is no guarantee is leads to full employment. State capitalism is where there is true full employment. Based on economics class, it was shown that mixed economic models are the most successful. Free markets do not exist. They lead to corruption and wealth staying at the top.
commented 2016-05-03 13:22:03 -0400
There is also no guarantee that libertarianism which is coupled with neoliberalism which is lowering our standard of living, cuts instead of real wealth and cutting programs and letting the most vulnerable fend for themselves.

That is what happened after 1981.

Small government, few regulations and lower taxes is just a label, and the nations that kept their manufacturing and modernized and tried to keep mostly state capitalist models have had near full employment which I think Canada needs to adopt and redo its free trade agreements and scrap most of them if not all.

As for taxation, I think we need to restructure the models to make it work under a protectionist model.
commented 2016-05-03 13:14:00 -0400
Well any system where there is protectionism and a mixed model could be considered nationalist because it also has tenets which are anti-war and anti-globalist.

So that is what I would define as capitalist in the sense that it was before Reagan and the West had it as a model which all nations used and it did very well.

People could pay off their homes quicker and one income was enough to handle a household budget.

I think the proof is there based on how successful and more prosperous the average family truly was.
commented 2016-05-03 13:12:46 -0400
“The private sector can be a part of the economy but I believe in balance and you believe in private sector only. "

I believe in the private sector to drive the market and the government to manage what they are constitutionally required to manage, and that is not business.

Small government. Few regulations. Low taxes.

I believe in the government institutions sticking with their original mandate.

And I will get to reading these two links after a while.

http://actionparty.ca/pillars/economic-prosperity

http://actionparty.ca/pillars/monetary-reform
commented 2016-05-03 13:09:40 -0400
“Also, socialism is anti-capitalist.”

No argument with you there.

“Nationalism is pro-traditionalist capitalist. "

Can you define for me your understanding of “pro-traditionalist capitalist”.

“That is all due to free trade and so-called free market capitalism which is I am not sure if it even exists much like true communism.”

No, it is because of inflation which devalues the dollar and subsequently makes products and services more expensive.
commented 2016-05-03 13:09:17 -0400
You glossed over the two links I posted about free trade failures and the Bank of Canada.

You glossed over the post-war boom and maintained 22 billion debt which the Bank of Canada did not go far enough.

The private sector can be a part of the economy but I believe in balance and you believe in private sector only.

Profit is necessary but it has gone too far in the corporate-centered direction.
commented 2016-05-03 13:05:08 -0400
“I meant the oil crisis in the 1970’s caused the high interest rates and forced neoliberalism which we have had until now. "

Oh, my misunderstanding.

“Governments have to invest because the private sector will not. "

The private sector will invest in anything that will make profit. Profit is generated when a product and/or service is created that people want. When a government makes decisions on who to give our tax payer money to, they will always choose the companies that are owned by their friends, not based upon what the market will support. That is why governments should never be picking winners and losers. Let the market choose winners and losers.

John said, "People after the financial crisis do not even take private sector debt into account after the financial crisis. "

Of course not. Why should they? The private sector is responsible for its’ own debt. That is what makes it so good to have the private sector drive innovation because we the tax payers are not responsible for supporting a failed company when it is private sector.

John said, “The post-war boom did create a situation of full employment. The proof is there. You check any scale from 1945 to 1974 and it is obvious that Canada maintained a normal debt of 22 billion on average.”

Your point? What conclusion are you trying to draw from this statement?

John asked, “So you think nationalism and socialism are the same things?”

Ummmm… no. Did I suggest that they were?
commented 2016-05-03 12:57:47 -0400
http://actionparty.ca/pillars/economic-prosperity

http://actionparty.ca/pillars/monetary-reform

This is what I support Peter Netterville. It is a shame you are not aware of this. You are stuck in your own version of normality.

Also, socialism is anti-capitalist.

Nationalism is pro-traditionalist capitalist.

That is the distinction.

Many called capitalism in the old days real capitalism and people did have higher incomes and even one income was enough to support a household.

Now, you’d be lucky to have two and a half incomes to support a household.

That is all due to free trade and so-called free market capitalism which is I am not sure if it even exists much like true communism.
commented 2016-05-03 12:50:46 -0400
So you think nationalism and socialism are the same things?
commented 2016-05-03 12:49:35 -0400
I meant the oil crisis in the 1970’s caused the high interest rates and forced neoliberalism which we have had until now.

Governments have to invest because the private sector will not.

People after the financial crisis do not even take private sector debt into account after the financial crisis.

The post-war boom did create a situation of full employment. The proof is there. You check any scale from 1945 to 1974 and it is obvious that Canada maintained a normal debt of 22 billion on average.

The proof is there and on the Canadian Action party website it is shown on videos posted there.

Nationalism and taking control of necessary functions in society is what builds a strong and wealthy society. Sacrificing everything to the private sector and the public sector is a failure. That is why a balance is necessary.

Free trade is also a culprit which has sold out Canada.
commented 2016-05-03 12:47:09 -0400
JOHN SICILIANO, It is things like you who drag this Country down to it’s lowest common denominator. Marxist Wanker

The UK just gave Bombardier 30,000,000 Pounds Sterling, for their plant in Northern Ireland. What more are they going to Con out of the public.

I wonder how many shares Trudeau holds in the company. The Kermit Mafia stick together like sht to a blanket.
commented 2016-05-03 12:37:37 -0400
@ John Siciliano
“Everyone knows that to build a society that works you need to innovate by investing in certain companies. That is not crony capitalism it is part of how an economy functions. "

Yes, investing is necessary, but not by the government. What makes you think that the government has the qualifications to “pick winners and losers”? Picking winners and losers should be the sole domain of the free market, not government, because anyone with even half a brain knows that the government will always pick companies that are their friends. That is the very definition of crony capitalism. The Liebranos are the worst for that.

John said, “Do not forget that prior to the oil crisis …”

There is no “oil crisis”. There IS, however, a government crisis. Ralph Klein brought the economy in Alberta into profit when the price on oil was about $36/barrel and brought the unemployment rate down the whole time and managed to leave about $13 billion in two government accounts.

John said, "… state capitalism and does work. "

Bullshit, John! Bullshit all to hell! State capitalism does not work. You are ignoring all the evidence that it pounding you in the face!

John said, “Those tax cuts by Harper were supposed to be helpful for our economy and they were proven to be a payoff.”

Socialist lies and bullshit.
commented 2016-05-03 11:58:05 -0400
The problem with capitalism nowadays is corporatism meaning corporations being given all the benefits and they are sitting on hundreds of billions and not investing their money.

Those tax cuts by Harper were supposed to be helpful for our economy and they were proven to be a payoff.

Which is why capitalism is now just a race to the bottom system.
commented 2016-05-03 11:56:30 -0400
Everyone knows that to build a society that works you need to innovate by investing in certain companies. That is not crony capitalism it is part of how an economy functions.

Do not forget that prior to the oil crisis we had the post-war boom which led to basically the oil crisis and that was the mixed economic model and a mainly protectionist model of near full employment.

That had near full employment and it proves that statism and state capitalism and does work.

I see nothing wrong with picking winners and losers.
commented 2016-05-03 11:42:02 -0400
Before handing out anymore money to these big black holes, they should review the salary structure of the people running the show.
I’ll bet that they are all multimillionaires.
Quebec corporations seem to get a disproportionate amount of federal aide.
While we’re at it, does anyone realize how much the heads of CBC and Ontario hydro get?
It’s disgusting. They tell us to tighten our belts whilst they live high off the hog.
They should remember Marie Antoinnette.

DJBT
commented 2016-05-03 11:34:34 -0400
Bombardier is a penny stock.

Libranos pay for a failing company.

Ah yes, Canada is back, where losers and mediocrity reign supreme.

Hail to the camp counselor Trudeau – there’s no bigger fucking idiot in the world.