August 02, 2016

The student debt crisis: Is college obsolete?

Lauren SouthernRebel Commentator
 

Over the past several decades, the cost of university has gone up, but the value of degrees, the likelihood of getting a job and the quality of education has gone down.

Student loan debt is increasing and students are finding their loans nearly impossible to pay off. In the near future the crisis could resemble the 2008 housing crash and bring us into a recession.

Yet government, parents and students themselves seem to be turning a blind eye to the issue, continuing to give out loans so students can get near useless art degrees.

Today I discuss the student debt crisis and modern education with YouTuber Red Pill Philosophy and cam girl with a neuroscience degree Anna Cherry.

Comments
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commented 2016-08-16 01:40:10 -0400
Very interesting show, a topic that we would never see discussed with such honesty in the MSM. Great show, keep them coming!
commented 2016-08-13 13:21:27 -0400
school or not, you have to love what you do, that’s huge
commented 2016-08-06 20:49:17 -0400
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commented 2016-08-05 11:02:11 -0400
LOL, you think life is bad within the “college bubble”, try living outside of it. I’d rather be indebted and have both future earning potential and a satisfying job, than outside the “college bubble”. The difference between an educated person, and an uneducated one? The uneducated person is going to be asking you if you want fries with that for the rest of their life.
commented 2016-08-04 15:30:26 -0400
your guests need to understand that life sucks, get used to it and that their shit actually does stink.
commented 2016-08-03 14:49:56 -0400
There is one big difference between tradespeople and the “intellectual elites”, tradespeople actually do things that need doing. Wages in the trades have been steadily increasing over the last forty or so years because universities narrow the focus of their students so much they can’t solve an everyday problem. Gone are the days of the family farm, when the farmer was part veterinarian, part welder, mechanic, butcher, agronomist, and all around “Mr fix-it”. The trades offer great opportunities for anyone that is not afraid to get their hands dirty and would like to be their own boss. We will still need Doctors, nurses and accountants – engineers maybe – lawyers and politicians not at all. Without the trades these liberal elites would die slowly in a snowbank or a flooded basement starving
commented 2016-08-03 13:29:02 -0400
- College & University has become the home of indoctrination. High school students are told how important getting a degree is but many would have been better off learning a trade or starting their own business. When the government started backing student loans the costs started going through the roof while the quality plummeted. Bring in “free” education (putting the taxpayer on the hook) & it will get much, much worse.
commented 2016-08-03 09:44:58 -0400
I found my college experience career motivated. They geared us toward that end using instructors that were professionals in the field and had us work based on real world scenarios. Like the old standard…what the hell are you qualified to be with a degree in art history or the like? The focus should be on educational based on job fields that are actually hiring!
commented 2016-08-03 09:33:39 -0400
You “highly educated, intellectually superior” university graduates had better hope that those who went through the trades are not as stupid as you believe them to be because they make everything you live in, sleep in, play in, compute with, drive over, drive in … … basically everything in life that we use is made by those trades people. So you had better hope they are not as dull as you claim them to be.
commented 2016-08-03 09:29:07 -0400
This myth that college is for idiots and university if for the intellectually superior is all made up bullshit propagated by … you guessed it … the universities and their brain dead indoctrinated graduates who bought into the “I paid more for my education so therefore it is better” lie.
commented 2016-08-03 07:28:40 -0400
There is no GOOD reason why an undergraduate (bachelor) degree in liberal arts should cost one nickle more than a highschool education…other than the political clout of the post secondary cartel…..I will be back for along rant…in chapters.
commented 2016-08-03 05:19:40 -0400
I worked at a major Canadian university, and depending upon the ranking study, comes in as high as 21st in the world or as low as 68th in the world, but always in the top three in Canada. Over the years I noted a general decline in the ability of students regarding their studies (with a lowering of the educational bar to match) and a decrease in the students understanding of the world around them.

A simple instruction such as PRINT your name can lead to confusion of what is required of them. Do not use campus computers for gaming can be met with, “If I was working, the boss wouldn’t mind.”

There is an incredible increase in the expectation and self-entitlement simply for being admitted to the school. Students expected good grades regardless of poor quality work. Unfortunately, many departments yielded to this self-entitlement.

With the above said, most engineering students should not be in a university but in a technical or trade school. Undergrad programs teach less than technical schools and barely prepare a graduating student for a work environment. If engineering students went to technical schools instead of wasting time in a university, universities would be able to choose from the top 20% tech school grads applying for graduate school in Engineering. Most students (and employers) would be satisfied with what a technical school could provide.

This could probably apply to the sciences, but my expertise was mostly with Engineering students. Many Arts programs would be better off as art schools, such as media, acting, painting and such.

Universities more and more just teach for the regurgitation of information. Few professors teach for the understanding of information and independent thought – unlike in my undergrad days where the expectation was to “think”.

Most hiring today understand the true value of a university degree, and that it is worth the same as a high school leaving certificate of fifty years ago. They know that the bar has been lowered to meet the best expectation of the ability of the majority of the students. Grades, unfortunately, along with testing now allows for the less inclined to think or learn to achieve good grades.

Students, such as those where I worked, did not understand that their tuition essentially pays for the cost of campus cleaning. The majority of the cost of their education is paid by taxes.

Of course universities limit the number of Canadian students to allow for foreign students to attend their school. This can mean as much as 20% foreign registration. Though foreign students pay more, most end up subsidised to some extent by Canadian taxpayers. Some schools or departments charge Canadian students a fee to help defray foreign student fees. This can mean financially supporting students for very (and I do mean very) rich families.

From experience, the supposed benefits of mixing with foreign students has rarely been of benefit to Canadian students.

Some schools allow for foreign students to become paid teaching assistants; this should be reserved for Canadian students. I believe there should be no subsidising of any foreign student by any amount with the exception of scholarships based upon merit.

BTW, Quebec charges students from France the exact same tuition that they would pay in France. Zero. Nothing. Nada. Nothing. Free.

Many years ago I met a US student in Canada paying next to nothing for her degree in medicine. Her view was that her “parents need a break” for tuition fees. What, at the time, would be US$300,000 to become a doctor in the US at a lesser known school ended up as less than CDN$8,000 a year plus living expenses. The “break” her parents received was by way of Canadian taxpayers. She believed that her living expenses (apartment, food, telephone, cable, beer money) balanced off what Canadians were paying to support her. Her being a foreign student in a Canadian medical school reduced that school’s Canadian student enrolment by one Canadian.

What would reduce the financial woes of a good many students would be for them to go elsewhere other than university. The prestige of a university degree is just elitism; we have to stop acting as though a trade school somehow means not being smart – it could mean the very opposite. There is a good deal of stupid people in university, including the teaching staff.
commented 2016-08-03 02:29:07 -0400
Most of grade school is obsolete. The amount of literature analysis that I was forced to do still has not paid off in life after high school.

But if you think universities are bad, look at what community colleges are doing. They have these social services diplomas that help students get entry level jobs. All the students from these programs get indoctrinated with the propaganda of how much more qualified they are than university graduates.

The worst of the worst is college diplomas for the intellectually disabled And no, I am not making this up. It turns out political correctness can give the mentally retarded a college education, but it won’t cure them.
commented 2016-08-03 01:01:10 -0400
We already subsidize this kind of education, maybe the schools should take a hit and pay themselves less before they demand more from others.
commented 2016-08-03 01:00:05 -0400
John S i fully agree with your work experience value comment, in most cases it would benefit the person to get a feel for what they want to learn. It is not always as it seems until you try it.
commented 2016-08-03 00:58:39 -0400
John S those millennials voted in the idiots ruining the job market. And some degrees are pretty much useless in the real world.
commented 2016-08-03 00:21:11 -0400
What does a UBC BSc grad say to a Simon Fraser BSc gad? “Welcome to McDonald’s. Can I take your order, please?”
commented 2016-08-02 23:42:54 -0400
Thanks for an interesting show Lauren. Many years ago I opted for a community college education to get into the workforce more quickly than spending years at university. Sadly, what is now happening is that all those people who went to university and have degrees in my field are finally in positions of power and making a university degree a condition of employment in jobs that I am more qualified to do because of my real life experience.
commented 2016-08-02 23:18:40 -0400
Trades education is where the high paying jobs are at the moment.
commented 2016-08-02 22:32:09 -0400
The point is trades are better and volunteering and discovering your own talents and individualized skills.

Do not rush into anything is the best way to go about knowing what to do after high school.
commented 2016-08-02 22:29:16 -0400
Work experience these days appears to be more important than post secondary from what I noticed and experienced because even though I did do IT and Electronics Engineering I noticed that the work from even part-time and contract jobs adds more benefit than schooling.
commented 2016-08-02 22:27:00 -0400
Going directly into post secondary without having the faintest idea of what I wanted to be seemed to be an exercise in futility to me. I opted to work after high school and figure out who I am and what I like.

Despite coming from a wealthy family, I put myself through college. Albeit not from my own choice at first. My father refused to pay, despite his ample financial resources. At the time, I was pissed off. But I was determined and funded my own education, and I did. Today I have so much more self respect for doing it on my own.
Kids today just expect everything to be paid for and set up with a nice bow. They just want to sign their names on the cheques they cash.
commented 2016-08-02 22:25:20 -0400
They will continue to doll out massive loans until the system collapses. Then they will nationalise it. Offering “free” education will create a captive voting block of perpetual students. We have all seen them hanging around in university and college lounges. The 40 something pony tailed douche with the over sized leather purse and the ironic hipster glasses. Working on their fourth or fifth degree. Soon there will be a lot more of these sandal wearing, purse packing, goatee sporting, Marxist Cultural Studies apparatchik in a school near you. Why bother working or actually getting a useful degree when you can be a “student” until you retire? It will be great, until they run out of other peoples money right?
commented 2016-08-02 22:25:06 -0400
And yes Canada still has not rebounded from the financial crisis.

GDP growth for most Western nations is around 2% of GDP or lower.

These statistics are not hard to find by just searching on Google.

In fact, with Ontario and other jurisdictions which lost manufacturing, even with Harper’s tax cuts, no manufacturing jobs have truly recovered. Remember it is mostly the federal government that impacts how jobs are going to do in the nation. This statistic has not changed.

According to the right everyone is lazy, when if jobs are not there they do not exist. This is another example of attacking the victim and scapegoating. There are simply more and more people competing for fewer and fewer jobs. And yes automation is becoming more and more of a reality. No wonder people are worried.
commented 2016-08-02 22:22:14 -0400
College is necessary for people that are not smart enough to go into university and that choose to not go into the trades. Remember that choice is necessary in a society, and making it more affordable is why subsidies for institutions should be part of the equation.

The people that support the Conservative party would have you believe that all teachers are Marxist when in subjects such as engineering, math, physics and subjects like Information Technology that never enters the equation. What Canadians need is to have real ways to ensure that there is employment in the end. Otherwise, the programs should not exist, and there should be ways to innovate and allow programs to be relevant for this time period. This will allow people to find employment in the end.

The Rebel is not being genuine about how much Millenials are truly suffering in this job market. They do not talk about the statistics and figures showing unemployment, and that about half of Millenials have to go back home to live with their parents again. It is almost a certainly that a degree or diploma just guarantees working in a fast food joint and it means to aim lower. Why isn’t Rebel talking about the deterioration of the entry level job and ways to enter the market, instead of attacking the most vulnerable?!
commented 2016-08-02 22:19:27 -0400
The entitlement generation continues to demand some one else pay for them. Hey lefties answer me this question: How much of someone else’s hard earned money is your fair share? Get off your asses and EARN a living.
commented 2016-08-02 22:17:22 -0400
Ethan;

No. I don’t. I just ask myself what value add they bring to society these days. For the vast majority, they are nothing but a leech and a drain on society who’s biggest concerns are bike lanes or increasing the number of recipients of social welfare. They offer no net benefit to society, despite what their over inflated ego and sense of entitlement tells them…
commented 2016-08-02 22:10:10 -0400
CONGRATULATIONS LAUREN on full time , you will draw more attention and get the the REBEL closer to the one hundred mark
commented 2016-08-02 21:47:33 -0400
My kids all worked their way through university – graduated debt free.

Who held a gun to the heads of those claiming to be drowning in debt and forced them to sign for more debt?

Entitled attitude caused this – plus a whole bunch of lazy stupidity.

And I might ad that those who studied and graduated with “women’s vaginas and the relationship game” degrees are as unemployable today as they were when they were six years old.

No pity from me.
commented 2016-08-02 21:25:46 -0400
Is college obsolete?

Not in Ontario!!! College is going to be the next social fad now that the slippery kunt Premier of Ontario has just offered free tuition in Ontario. Thereby adding to the number of self entitled millennial dipships who have never had to work for a gawd damn thing in their entire life!!!