June 01, 2015

This Canadian judge wants "Holocaust denial" style laws restricting debate about residential schools

Ezra LevantRebel Commander

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission into Canada's residential schools has been chaired by Manitoba Justice Murray Sinclair, who recently said something depressing and disturbing.

He claimed "there are laws in place that say you actually can't deny the Holocaust."

He then promoted the idea of passing similar laws regarding "residential schools and the abuse that occurred."

First, it's not illegal to deny the Holocaust in Canada. You'd think a judge would know this.

But what's scarier is that he actually wants a law like that passed.

That would shut down debates about what happened in residential schools, and not every historian or even former student thinks they were all bad. Would they be charged with "hate speech" for saying so?

This is another example of unelected and unaccountable Canadian judges getting political.

(Photo: Truth and Reconciliation Commission media room)

READ Shakedown: How Our Government is Undermining Democracy in the Name of Human Rights:
Ezra Levant’s book about the Canadian Human Rights Commissions, censorship and the Mohammed cartoons was voted "the best political book of the last 25 years."

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commented 2015-06-02 18:45:23 -0400
Judy…..I believe in merit….as a concession to reality I have to put up with elitist phenomena like nepotism because it is human nature to look after your own first and to want to pass on your wealth on to your children.

There is a time honoured way to eliminate discrimination in limited resources ….anonymous lottery….if you believe in divine intervention the outcome is a manifestation of that…if you believe in random chance… then the impartiality of random chance determines the outcome and nobody questions it’s fairness.

Most of the feminists who have opted…if not to support MRA, at least to stop actively opposing it…have male relatives….usually their sons…who have been screwed by feminism.

It has been my observation among those my age…if you have grandchildren by a daughter the odds are that relationship will endure and be ongoing….unless she has issues with her father….if they are by a son you have a fifty/fifty chance of that relationship going “poof” at the capricious whim of a woman…..all in the name of “equality”.
commented 2015-06-02 14:39:20 -0400
The best way to determine an issue is to bring all points of view into the light for examination. Then the truth will be found.
commented 2015-06-02 14:00:54 -0400
And no…laws against debate or discussion are NOT ACCEPTABLE in a free society… that is just more of the sickness called ‘Free Speech, BUT’…
commented 2015-06-02 13:16:36 -0400
@ Glenn Craig said:“Terry, no matter how hard you or Adam might try….I am not going to buy into enforced egalitarianism”…

As a feminist, I agree with this point, Glenn…in fact it is impossible to ENFORCE egalitarianism…without enforcing inequality from the status quo…(which is YOUR point…white men do not like the way they are being EXCLUDED from jobs IN ORDER TO BRING EQUALITY INTO THE PICTURE..) It is very hard to GIVE UP ENTITLEMENT…isn’t it? When your male ancestors held all the top jobs and then you find you are not even entitled to APPLY it is a bitter pill to swallow…AND may I say, it should be unnecessary…

If there aren’t enough “pies” to go around, the government would do more for the economy if it encouraged us to MAKE MORE PIES so those who have the gifts of leadership and the ability to lead, create businesses, etc., could find an outlet for their gifts…OF COURSE I am referring to WOMEN in particular, whose great gifts have for generations been crammed into cleaning floors and making pies, even if their real brains could have done medical research and designed better equipment (such as the autistic Temple Grandin, American professor of animal science at Colorado State University, a best-selling author, an autistic activist, and a consultant to the livestock industry on animal behavior. She also invented the “hug box”, a device to calm those on the autism spectrum. The subject of an award-winning, 2010 biographical film, Temple Grandin, she also was listed in the Time 100 list of the one hundred most influential people in the world in the “Heroes” category.)

I know it has hard to see women being finally given permission to actually achieve heights that were forbidden them in the past while your sons have to find their way the hard way…( and these are also some women’s sons) so this is definitely not fair…but perhaps there is a better way.

So I agree that forced egalitarianism is not the way to go…but could we agree that women AND men who are qualified should be given equal opportunity AND ENCOURAGEMENT to achieve their best…OR WOULD YOU PREFER TO HOLD BACK CIVILIZATION AS WE HAVE IN THE PAST BY MAKING ALL MEN TO HOLD JOBS, MANY FOR WHICH THEY WERE NOT QUALIFIED TO FILL SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WERE MEN.

My theory is that God made cactus to grow in sun while ferns prefer shade…people who need sun should be placed in the sun and those who prefer the shade should not be belittled for wanting to stay out of the sun (i.e. the father of the present Queen ElizabethII) …Civilization would be much farther ahead if women who had the abilities had been permitted long ago to shine in commerce and science and not browbeaten by a culture that found and often still finds their ambitions disgusting. Men who prefer the shade should not have to be forced into leadership, or ‘manly’ professions or any other category into which they do not fit…likewise women…many are pleased to stay home, and so they should…IT IS ALL ABOUT LIBERTY and THE JOY OF FREEDOM and ACCOMPLISHMENT FOR ALL…Is this not what we ALL WANT? Then we need a government that ENCOURAGES ENTERPRISE…and opens the door to private enterprise…if we want liberty.
commented 2015-06-02 11:08:44 -0400
The left do like to keep picking at the scabs of past errors on the part of our government, even though most, if not all past horrors were inflicted by Liberal governments. They cleverly omit these facts when they are smearing the current conservative government. They try to be all self righteous, but we all know that it is their way of usurping power, at any cost!
commented 2015-06-02 10:31:40 -0400
Terry Rudden…..I have felt the exasperation you feel here on other forums….I am an MRA….you have to have a very thick skin to keep that up…….:-)

It would be a waste of your elloquence if you did not try to hold the CBC to such high standards…I am willing to bet that if you did try it you would experience considerable censorship or….like me….be banned from the site altogether.

But you have learned a valuable lesson…..the things we say to justify the conclusions we have arrived at rarely persuade others to those conclusions…..which is why I am not impressed with “debates” or “logical arguments” as tools of persuasion.

As Blaise Pascal noted anyone can walk a plank…when it is on the ground they will not hesitate…but place it up high and few will be persuaded to try through “debate” or “logical argument” …people are motivated by hope and fear…not by reason…the world would be a very different place if people were motivated by reason.

Terry, no matter how hard you or Adam might try….I am not going to buy into enforced egalitarianism…nor do I think for one minute it is a good thing. I am not going to buy the snake oil of guilt and shame manipulation for the karma of others…I am responsible for my own karma and nobody else’s.

Karma means “the ruts left by the wheels of a cart” or “habitual pattern” so therefore habitual pattern forms our destiny. The width of standard gauge railroad tracks is the wheel base of a Roman war chariot…because the first coach makers matched the size to the prevalent ruts in English roads …which were originally scribed by the Romans… you type your entries on this forum with a QWERTY keyboard…a configureation deliberately designed to be inefficient so that keys in a typewriter wouldn’t jamb so frequently…

Best way to get stuck in a pattern of suffering is to cling to a cherished grudge……I oppose….. whenever I can…the cherished grudge that becomes scribed in ink on paper as public policy….there is just no need of it….
commented 2015-06-02 09:48:09 -0400
Something Ezra said that puzzled me…if there are no laws against Holocaust denial (which while it is understandably annoying and insulting to Jews actually gives opportunity to re-tell the story and showcase the evidence) what was Ernst Zundel charged with and why? It is my understanding he was charged with both “hate speech” (presumably by inciting contempt of Jews for telling a big fib) and “spreading false news” (I sometimes wish THAT would get enforced for other subject matter).

Now for as much as I found Ernst Zundel revolting I was against prosecuting him….and the subject matter of this thread is the reason why…the precedent that it set puts everyone who criticizes the hyperbole of this process puts themselves in jeopardy of the same medicine.

Marjorie Spacek…I too have heard from former school residents that many of them had no complaints about the school but the ex-gratis payment was an incentive to make claims of abuse.

I attended Saint Andrew’s School in Halifax….for the offence of not wearing a necktie (it was in my locker because I was not permitted to wear it in shop class around things like a lathe or table saw) I was beaten with a beaded rubber strap. This was normal for that era.

I have read the commission’s report and the charge that 6000 died is apparently mostly attributed to tuberculosis.

In order for this judge’s claim that this is comparable to the Jewish Holocaust it would have to be proven that this outcome was protracted and deliberate…..among the evidence against the Nazis is study data done on the original Polish Cavalry Barracks which was the original confinement area at Auschwitz…. experiments were done to find out how much overcrowding it took to induce an outbreak of typhus or other diseases associated with vermin insects. This data was wanted by the German military for their barracks and encampment standards.

Again this was proven to be deliberate…..in the case of the residential schools there may well be a case for negligence…but I find allegation of deliberate genocide a bit of a streatch.
commented 2015-06-02 00:21:10 -0400
Terry, if you must, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. It has been a slice. I’m sure there are others who will pipe up. I hope so.
commented 2015-06-02 00:03:52 -0400
Justice Sinclair is making political statements and it bringing the so called justice system into even more disrepute. He is a good reason why we should be able to elect judges in Canada. These appointed hacks are just not doing the job.
commented 2015-06-01 21:23:50 -0400
I tend to agree with Ron, Terry.
commented 2015-06-01 21:16:25 -0400
Terry I don’t think it is a good idea for you to leave. You have given much food for thought.
commented 2015-06-01 21:07:33 -0400
To Ron, Joan, Peter, and the other folks who’ve shown glimmers of decency or reason here:
I started to respond to this thread. But when I read the same old comments from the same voices, starting from the same points of bias and rage, I realize that there is simply no point in trying to have a conversation in this forum that goes any deeper than and exchange of biases.
You win. Goodbye.
commented 2015-06-01 20:20:14 -0400
I have given this some thought and it was wrong for both judges to make those statements. The judiciary should be above making comments that are editorials. However I don’t know if this is a regular occurrence by our judiciary. Someone could help me out here.
commented 2015-06-01 19:52:27 -0400
Ron Zager said, “Was he making a political comment? I am still thinking about that.”

Well, he was advocating a change in policy regarding the treatment of the residential schools issue, so yes, he is being political.
commented 2015-06-01 19:46:33 -0400
Guy “if it were not for my Ancestors Building this Great Nation”. That is called colonialism and has now fallen out of favour. Try being a white African in the dark continent and feel the hatred from the political bosses even though your ancestors built so much to help their grand parents.
commented 2015-06-01 19:15:12 -0400
Let the haters hate and the Flaming can begin, because the truth hurts but does no harm.
commented 2015-06-01 19:13:13 -0400
Interesting statistic : “150 000 children were taken from their home some by force”
1) Some were sent by poor families who could not afford to feed and cloth their children until they could work on the farm or fisheries.
2) Many white kids were sent to residential schools, not just aboriginals.
3) Depending on the school all kids were forced to learn English or French regardless of their first language including French and English speaking children.
4) Girls and boys as well as natives and non-natives were abused.
5) Not all children were abused and not all schools were rife with abuse
Why is it that only Native People are represented as the victims and the narrative is that all the schools only abused natives and non-native residents are never brought up by the Media Party?
I know people of French Ancestry in Western Canada that were placed in residential schools by their parents and forced to speak English or were harshly treated but have never heard anyone in the MSM mention anything by Natives.
I have NO WHITE GUILT and if it were not for my Ancestors Building this Great Nation, the Natives would still be massacring each other with rocks and sticks and starving every winter. In my personal opinion the Natives should thank the ancestors of the early settlers for saving them and giving them the opportunity to do more than just exist and subsist.
commented 2015-06-01 18:44:28 -0400
With respect to the residential schools, I was told that some children liked the school they were in. However, they apologetically told their former teacher that they would get paid a sum if they claimed abuse of some form. So the payment was an incentive to claim mistreatment. I remember some decades ago hearing tales by Brian Maracle on CBC radio of the residential school he had attended. Perhaps it was in the 1970s. This is not to diminish the accuracy of the reports of the treatment of some children. Is this the sort of statement that should not be made; that is, the report of some children who liked their school and felt they had benefitted from being there? Was the sole purpose of the schools to eliminate the customs of the First Nations? Is that the finding of the Commission? Many aside from First Nations could tell tales of school life that was harsh, and that drove many, especially young men, from an atmosphere of humiliation. How many youths signed up for service in WWII, as young as 16 with parents’ signatures, to escape from what they considered an intolerable situation? Some of the young men who survived the war, later had careers that were outstanding. Their abilities had been seriously misjudged.
commented 2015-06-01 18:44:24 -0400
Vlad the judge is allowed his opinion and Ezra asked the question if he should be allowed to make political comments while sitting as a judge. My answer is no. Was he making a political comment? I am still thinking about that.
commented 2015-06-01 18:36:41 -0400
Just another attempt liberal/communist/socialist/marxist pig of the day, Murray Sinclair. Not surprising that sinclair is a liberal/communist/socialist/marxist pig of a judge too.

liberal/communist/socialist/marxist pigs want an end to free speech – you can say what they want only and and end to religion (but I digress).
Hope your heart stops beating soon murray sinclair.
commented 2015-06-01 18:30:07 -0400
Nobody denies that mistreatment occurred in the residential schools, but to make claims of genocide is utterly rediculous, if it was the case there would be no survivors. The groups want to keep this senario alive because it provids a justification for bad behavior. By cointinually bring yhis up justifies antii-social, irresponsible and unproductive behavior. Time to move ahead and encourage them to take an active participation in Canadian Society..
commented 2015-06-01 18:24:44 -0400
South Africa is now under a new type of racism against whites under the ANC. Genocide is now taking place against the Afrikaner. 68,000 murdered since Madiba made all things good. So I hope the Truth and Reconciliation goes better here than what has happened there. Read this one:-
commented 2015-06-01 18:23:12 -0400
As terrible as residential schools were they were NOT genocide. In any case even Holocaust denial laws are misguided. Trying to let the government tell us what we can and cannot debate is an affront to free speech.