May 09, 2018

Barbara Kay: Non-binary birth certificates are "nuts"

Ezra LevantRebel Commander


On last night's show, National Post columnist Barbara Kay joined me to discuss Ontario's introduction of "non-binary" birth certificates. 

Rather than indicating whether a person is male or female, the certificates will simply state "x".

"X" is not a sex. A man dressing up as a woman or vice versa doesn't change that.

WATCH my interview with Barbara to see how proponents of this crazy move are legislating the misuse of words, and why Ontario will come to regret it.

Comments
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commented 2018-05-12 11:50:55 -0400
Allan Peterson commented 21 hours ago
We’ve been through this B MR-Babies-Are-Parasites. But still you continue to prattle on with your wishful thinking.

As we established previously, any gender other than male or female is a birth defect on the order of having 6 toes. It is not a separate gender however tragic it may be. Anymore than a child with Down’s syndrome is a separate species of animal."

I’m not a Mr.

You acknowledge the existence of “any gender other than male or female” as a birth defect. Which is to say, it does occur. How do you decide what to put on the birth certificate if the baby is ambiguous, especially now when it’s typical to not attempt “revision” until the child is old enough to decide whether they want it at all, and/or old enough that the child demonstrates gender identity and can be assigned appropriately? There have been several prominent examples of doctors revising the “wrong way” – revising towards the technically simpler female state, when the child later identifies as male. What do you do in the meantime? Some sort of “undefined” placeholder, is by far the simplest solution.

And, what if that child never decides to be “assigned” at all? Maintaining that undefined placeholder is appropriate. Once you get that far, then opting into it later, isn’t a terribly large leap of logic.

Your Downs comparison isn’t really that great – for about the fifth time, we specifically acknowledge the unique status of Downs people, but also, biologically, Downs is not related to gender. Intersex/non-binary lies in between two “normal” states and results from incomplete differentiation. Downs does not lie in between two states like that. There is a spectrum of affectedness, but the range is only “normal” on one end.

“Mental identities are feelings and legislation should not be made on the basis of someone’s feelings. The old saying still holds true. The truth doesn’t care about your feelings. "

You could use this argument either way. The objections towards including “X” seem primarily based in emotion, given your self-contradictory

Allan Peterson commented 20 hours ago

“Calling a lie the truth always has repercussions. I will not be forced not conceding to a lie. It hurts my credibility and integrity. Ain’t going to do it.

“If wishes were horses then beggars would ride”.

Again, I disagree with the idea of it being a “lie” – you even acknowledge, in crude terms, that such “deformities” exist. When you say “repercussions”, what does that mean? As in, actual repercussions, that impact you personally, not some hypothetical someday may happen things. And, I mean, as in actual direct impacts to your personal autonomy, beyond emotional discomfort, which is not a valid reason to take away someone else’s rights?

This comes back to the equal consequence argument I made the other day. Putting “X” on the birth certificate does two things. (a). Allows individuals who may not be strictly male or female to not be forced to choose – it gives them an option that may better represent them – predicated, perhaps, on the existence of that ambiguous “deformity” that you acknowledge exists to some extent, even if uncommon (and once it exists, utilization is a matter of degree rather than presence or absence) (b), In no way diminishes your own ability to continue to identify as a conventional male or female. This latter comment is the crux of most of the “slippery slope” arguments saying that eventually you might lose this ability – but as is often the case in “slippery slopes”, that’s not what we’re talking about today, on this very issue. I would agree, that taking away those options is wrong. But that’s not what this is about.

Conversely, we can continue to exclude “X”, making it a strictly binary option (yes, it is an option, and changing your birth certificate gender has been possible with reassignment for many years, and without reassignment in Ontario since 2012). This really doesn’t impact you, since your own identity remains unchanged (you are not entitled to have the goverment protect you from things that make you uncomfortable – having already addressed that your “lie” argument is nullified by your acknowledgement of gender “deformities”, it is thus purely an emotional opposition on your part), but it does delegitimize someone else’s autonomy. The consequence lies entirely on their end, not yours.

Another example of the discrepancy between “moral” and “legal”, perhaps. We are talking about something that has substantial consequence on non-binary individuals, and trivial consequence on you. The legal response is to thus expand recognition of non-binary genders, an expanded freedom that again, proves somewhere between trivial and negligible detriment to conventional identities. The government’s job is not to endorse or disendorse personal autonomy, including identity, and thus leaves the ability to self-determine open to the individual.
commented 2018-05-11 19:20:20 -0400
HARLEY MCCARTNEY commented 1 hour ago
Oh how will we ever get next gender equal anything if everyone is an X.
________________________________________________________________________________
Good question since its all supposed to be about self-identification. May be we just fill in our choice with a crayon.
commented 2018-05-11 18:25:44 -0400
Oh how will we ever get next gender equal anything if everyone is an X.
commented 2018-05-11 14:43:48 -0400
ANDREW STEPHENSON commented 5 hours ago

I will ask this simply – Does the addition of “x” hurt you in any way? I mean, in terms of what’s actually happening, not some slippery slope speculation of what eventually might. – you’re arguing against that future state, not the current one.
________________________________________________________________________________

Calling a lie the truth always has repercussions. I will not be forced not conceding to a lie. It hurts my credibility and integrity. Ain’t going to do it.

“If wishes were horses then beggars would ride”.
commented 2018-05-11 14:28:49 -0400
ANDREW STEPHENSON commented 1 day ago
Why include it? Because not all physical or mental identities are compatible with the existing system.
________________________________________________________________________________

We’ve been through this B MR-Babies-Are-Parasites. But still you continue to prattle on with your wishful thinking.

As we established previously, any gender other than male or female is a birth defect on the order of having 6 toes. It is not a separate gender however tragic it may be. Anymore than a child with Down’s syndrome is a separate species of animal.

Mental identities are feelings and legislation should not be made on the basis of someone’s feelings. The old saying still holds true. The truth doesn’t care about your feelings.
commented 2018-05-11 10:06:58 -0400
“Tammie Putinski-Zandbelt commented 11 hours ago
Sorry Andrew, your blather doesn’t hold water.
You are blind to what incremental concessions mean….I’m not exaggerating when I say there will be a push to identify everyone as X, followed by legislation. "

Concessions in what? The government shouldn’t be dictating gender, including forcing individuals to pick a choice (you’ve had the option of changing it between the conventional genders for years) that may not represent them.

We’ve already established that the medical reasons are bunk, since doctors treat what they see, not what a vital record stereotype determines, and unless you’re clearly cisgendered it’s not necessarily a useful identifier on your drivers license etc.

I will ask this simply – Does the addition of “x” hurt you in any way? I mean, in terms of what’s actually happening, not some slippery slope speculation of what eventually might. – you’re arguing against that future state, not the current one.
commented 2018-05-11 06:50:39 -0400
The entire fooforah is caused by the misuse of the word sex.
Isn’t it the word gender that we are talking about. My gender is determined at birth. As I grow up I my find that my sexual inclination is bi-sexual, or transgender etc.
Let’s make sure that gender is used on birth certificates.
commented 2018-05-10 23:05:46 -0400
Sorry Andrew, your blather doesn’t hold water.
You are blind to what incremental concessions mean….I’m not exaggerating when I say there will be a push to identify everyone as X, followed by legislation.
commented 2018-05-10 21:53:18 -0400
TAMMIE PUTINSKI-ZANDBELT commented 4 hours ago
This is the first step in the appeasement process….more demands will be made.
Don’t be surprised if the Trans militants insist everyone be identified as X. "

It would be reasonable to rejecft "x’ if it doesn’t reflect your identity, just as it’s reasonable to reject "M or “f” if it doesn’t reflect. I am against removing options. However, your argument is a “slippery slope” that crosses past the line of increasing rights, to reducing them again, a completely different kettle of fish.

“Dale Warren commented 11 hours ago
@ Andrew Stephenson . . . .
“Why include it? Because not all physical or mental identities are compatible " ? ? ?

So Feelings and Emotions trump SCIENCE Andrew. Biology is Science . . . Emotion and Feelings are soooo half-wit Progressive. Are you a half-wit Progressive Andrew who does not believe his eyes? "
Biology isn’t that cut and dried. I can see, with my eyes, the existence of intersex individuals who are neither truly male nor female, and of individuals who are neither XX nor XY. This isn’t “feelings”. It’s empirical observation. Therefore, “science” says “none of the above” is a reasonable option, and it’s actually emotion that opposes it.

“David White commented 2 hours ago
Andrew S…please focus on J. Tomlinson’s comment…..you can kind of use it as a starter kit to help you understand what utter foolishness this is…on so many levels. "

which is
“J Tomlinson commented 23 hours ago
Unfortunately some types of disease affect males and females differently.
Cancer of the lungs,head and neck , thyroid, liver.

Male and females metabolize some medicines differently. "

For one thing, the doctor doesn’t blindly decide treatment options based solely upon your indicated birth certificate gender (as in someone marked “X” but who is a physically typical male) but rather evaluates the person as a whole, these treatments are closely monitored and they try to evaluate and monitor a person’s physiology in real time and responds accordingly. Individuals respond differently anyway. in a way that may or may not have anything to do with gender. You can’t take “normal” physiology for granted, because it’s far more variable than a lot of people realize, even naturally
commented 2018-05-10 21:53:08 -0400
David White, this topic does create a lot of headaches and nausea…I feel for you!
commented 2018-05-10 19:07:29 -0400
Andrew S…please focus on J. Tomlinson’s comment…..you can kind of use it as a starter kit to help you understand what utter foolishness this is…on so many levels.

About a month ago there was a story complete with photo of a situation where “daddy” was breastfeeding baby. Lo and behold there was butch daddy,who had been on the whole hormone switch over plan and was sporting what looked to be about a week of wiskers, stuffing one of “his” sagging milk filled udders into baby’s mouth. Now today I come across a story where some lunatic purple haired supposed woman was insisting parents need to wait for baby to indicate in some mysterious fashion that it is granting the caregiver permission to change baby’s diaper. The sickness of the left is totally out of control. Progressive liberalism….plague of the 21st century…

Can’t comment on this anymore. I have a headache and I think I may puke. This is WRONG.
commented 2018-05-10 10:57:16 -0400
Hyacinth, he has been photographed with a number of pedophiles.
commented 2018-05-10 10:49:31 -0400
@ Andrew Stephenson . . . .
“Why include it? Because not all physical or mental identities are compatible " ? ? ?

So Feelings and Emotions trump SCIENCE Andrew. Biology is Science . . . Emotion and Feelings are soooo half-wit Progressive. Are you a half-wit Progressive Andrew who does not believe his eyes?
commented 2018-05-10 10:22:19 -0400
Totally agree Tammie, Wynne has been moving Ontario at rapid speed towards that goal for several years and now she has Pretty Sock Boy helping on both the provincial and federal levels. Remember all those photo-ops with her, Trudeau and the convicted pedophile Ben Levin?
commented 2018-05-10 08:26:01 -0400
Good morning doctor I,d like to make an appointment for X.
Doctor for your X.
No doc for both of our X.
You both have the same X
Yes doc we like to get an X-ray for X
Are you pulling my leg?
Your a genderist see you in court doc.
commented 2018-05-10 08:12:10 -0400
Hyancinth, slave class serving the elites in NWO – Trudeau is moving Canada in this direction.
commented 2018-05-10 06:52:17 -0400
The LOONY LIBERAL minded nut jobs are at it again. This insanity just has to be stopped and very soon.
commented 2018-05-10 00:00:10 -0400
Tammie Putinski-Zandbelt commented 2 hours ago
Re-posting for Andrew
TAMMIE PUTINSKI-ZANDBELT commented 4 hours ago
This is the first step in the appeasement process….more demands will be made.
Don’t be surprised if the Trans militants insist everyone be identified as X.

It is not just [governmental] appeasement, think of it, what is the end goal of Totalitarianism or for that matter Communism? The general population has nothing, no free will, no individuality, mere peons to slave for the state. Difference between the two – Totalitarianism is always one leader while in communism there can be more than one leader.
commented 2018-05-09 22:14:02 -0400
Unfortunately some types of disease affect males and females differently.
Cancer of the lungs,head and neck , thyroid, liver.

Male and females metabolize some medicines differently.

If it gets to this point the cancer will choose the sex you were born not you .
commented 2018-05-09 21:59:17 -0400
I refuse to participate in such ludicrous governance.

Take a big black permanent ink marker and mark either M or F for male or female respectively.

If you’re having trouble figuring out the difference please reply. I can provide definitive directions on how to determine the difference. (sorry…no illustrations will be provided or indeed necessary.)

And if one chooses not to agree with the government “X” in the box. Does that mean the liberal government will hold back the child’s birth certificate?

Great use of yours and my hard earned taxpayer dollars used to come up with this I’m sure. Come to think of it. Has anyone ever learned how much we’ve paid for these shenanigans?

Ridiculous!
commented 2018-05-09 21:31:31 -0400
Re-posting for Andrew
TAMMIE PUTINSKI-ZANDBELT commented 4 hours ago
This is the first step in the appeasement process….more demands will be made.
Don’t be surprised if the Trans militants insist everyone be identified as X.
commented 2018-05-09 20:20:27 -0400
Why include it? Because not all physical or mental identities are compatible with the existing system
Why not include it? … Um, change offends some conservatives… I guess?

Inclusion of non-binary statuses takes nothing away from those who identify conventionally. Therefore, no reason not to include it.

Muta Ween commented 4 hours ago
What happens when the doctor asks the parents if they want X circumcised? And do the parents number their newborn to avoid using names associated with the old male/female paradigm?
When are you bringing the twins One and Two home from the hospital?
What an insane world !! "

Why would a parent who leaves gender up to the child, circumsise them? These are usually re-issues to adults, not children, anyway (and yeah, you can get the sex on your birth certificate changed already).
commented 2018-05-09 18:49:39 -0400
Just when I think we’ve hit bottom we just keep on free falling into insanity. I’m feeling sick that my grand children and the coming generations have to live in this cesspool of sickness.
commented 2018-05-09 17:27:06 -0400
This is the first step in the appeasement process….more demands will be made.
Don’t be surprised if the Trans militants insist everyone be identified as X.
commented 2018-05-09 16:46:49 -0400
So, unlike Global Warming, the science isn’t settled. At least in the warped minds of Progressives.
commented 2018-05-09 16:32:03 -0400
What happens when the doctor asks the parents if they want X circumcised? And do the parents number their newborn to avoid using names associated with the old male/female paradigm?
When are you bringing the twins One and Two home from the hospital?
What an insane world !!
commented 2018-05-09 15:51:09 -0400
Yeesh! What’s next? Special rights?