April 23, 2015

MPs who want to abolish House of Commons prayer should be honest about their reasons

Brian LilleyArchive

Three party leaders have decided that the prayer said in the House of Commons has to go.

This is in the wake of the Supreme Court decision that ruled city council meetings cannot start with a prayer.

Green Party Leader Elizabeth May wants the prayer changed to take out the word God. Well, at that point, why have the prayer at all?

Meanwhile NDP Leader Tom Mulcair and Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau say they want to switch from a prayer to a moment of reflection instead.

They all want to make these changes in the name of diversity, inclusion.

And they say they want to respect the Supreme Court.

But they aren't being honest. I explain why.

Do you agree? Tell us in the comments!


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commented 2015-04-26 09:36:39 -0400
We talk about “separation of church and state” and “multiculturalism”. Why do we have to follow the Americans? Some try to separate church and state and they get into problems. Why is that? Because they do not realize that the American Constitution was written around Christian tenets and values. If you try to separate them from the Constitution, it will be destroyed. Our constitution was also written around Christian tenets and values. Are we to also destroy our Constitution? We either stand together or we fall apart. As for “multiculturalism” … I welcome all but they must integrate into our society. Those coming must change. Our society should not change for them. I lived in another country for a few years and had to integrate. If I did not I would have been told to go home. It is that simple. The appearance is that many come for the benefits. But what about the society? We may be doing a poor job of marketing our society if immigrants only come for the benefits. For our society to survive they must integrate. If they do not want to then they should look somewhere else.
commented 2015-04-25 13:58:25 -0400
It is a really strange club to any sane, unbrainwashed Canadian Dale, I agree.
Justin, tom and maggy may, seem to want to embrace it. They think will be the consensus in the world and are just trying to get onto the team they think will be the winning one. True Canadians, NOT!
That’s some real patriotism right there.
commented 2015-04-25 13:17:03 -0400
What would you expect from 3 low level marxists?
The insane left has destroyed much of Europe, has put the US on the ropes . . . why not follow their example to the “atheist” paradise of shared poverty for all ! ! !
commented 2015-04-25 11:11:38 -0400
Well done, Brian. What you say is absolutely true and accurate.

Political leaders on the Left have no integrity, no courage and – apparently – no interest in history. They live in their own beneficent minds. People who would be a god have no tolerance for any other God. They want to sit in the God Chair. Therefore, they need it to be unoccupied.
commented 2015-04-25 10:48:07 -0400
Why is it that it is important that everyone else feel included except Christians? Why is the human rights commission is concerned about protecting everyone’s rights but Christians. When I walk through the streets of Toronto I have heard Hare Krishna’s singing, I have heard other religions proselytizing, I have occasionally spoken with atheists both online and in a few instances in person. One thing I can say is I have never felt excluded. In some cases I was very grateful I didn’t belong to their cult or what I perceive is extremist mindset and yet at the same time grateful to live in a country where we can all go our separate paths and believe what we perceive to be true and have the freedom to express our beliefs. I have never felt threatened because someone has a different religion than me and I don’ think atheists are going to whizzle up like an old apple because they hear someone that expresses beliefs other than their own. This is about tolerance and free speech and recognition the Supremacy of God as mentioned in the charter.
commented 2015-04-25 10:10:55 -0400
Freethinker- You miss the concept of what prayer is, it is NOT about praying for a pot of gold and then your prayer is automatically answered. When people veer off the path they tend to lose certain meanings of what church actually is, prayer being one of them. Why are the very people who bash Christians publicly are the very ones that will not say anything towards a religion that commits murder, rape, and abuse of all kinds. Is it ignorance, or is it fear?
commented 2015-04-24 22:00:25 -0400
Poor freethinker, if you wish I could show you how prayer works in my house. You see, God rejects sin so unless you are in a state of grace your prayers go unanswered. If you are in a state of mortal sin you reject God therefore are rejected. You can’t understand true faith until you have accepted it. Religions don’t cause wars but rather lack of. Islam is not a religion, nor is communism. There is only one true religion established by Christ. Everything else is an assembly
commented 2015-04-24 18:04:06 -0400
It is no coincidence that the world’s most prosperous countries are those built on the Judeo-Christian ethic. If we forget the God that made us great, He will forget us and our demise will soon follow.
commented 2015-04-24 16:54:44 -0400
Pretty soon the only people with a protected right to pray will be the muslims, I’ve bent so far over backward my spine is broken.
commented 2015-04-24 15:26:22 -0400
If we want to hold on to our country as we know it today, we need get as many people as we can get to vote for Harper in this election
commented 2015-04-24 15:26:22 -0400
If we want to hold on to our country as we know it today, we need get as many people as we can get to vote for Harper in this election
commented 2015-04-24 15:19:44 -0400
I just do not understand why every level of government is concentrating on banning something, waste of taxpayers money. And for the life of me, I cannot understand why the guy who took this issue to the Supreme court is getting something like $32000.00. Atheist’s funeral – all dressed up and nowhere to go
commented 2015-04-24 14:01:06 -0400
Freethinker said: “If prayer was actually shown to work, we should allow it to continue”.

Well, gee thanks Freethinker. But unfortunately for you, I’m not asking for your permission to pray or the permission of any pompous-assed judge either. I will do so if I please and your opinion or sensibilities don’t matter. I know that it comes as quite a surprise to you that there is anyone who doesn’t think your opinion is nothing less than crucial priority. The best thing we could do for this country is for as many people as possible to make a point of publicly telling the canadian judiciary to STFU and keep their snotty, elitist pontificating and bluster to themselves.
commented 2015-04-24 13:57:42 -0400
Judeo-Christianity is a set of beliefs and ethics held in common on which Canada was built. Keeping traditions is paramount to retaining identity. The foundations which built this country,are kept strong by this recognition. It is most appropriate for the prayer to remain in the House of Commons and every court room in the nation. Others, including atheists are free to practice their own religion in this country, but our ethical fabric comes from the Judeo- Christian morals. These traditions should be the ones to dominate in our public places. Otherwise we are, will be assimilated into oblivion. I don’t believe giving others freedom of religion means giving up ours (what our country was built on). Whose house(country) are you coming into anyway? One that has historical context which is a part of what makes us all Canadian, and where ever you have come from or what you believe, that must be respected and retained.
commented 2015-04-24 11:21:43 -0400
Chad you’re a moron. If you read KJV you’re deceived
commented 2015-04-24 09:50:40 -0400
As Canadians, we MUST TAKE BACK our country from those who seek to destroy it! Canadians are thought of as being a “TOLERANT” people, but where is the TOLERANCE on the part of Trudeau, Mulcair, May?
commented 2015-04-24 08:58:04 -0400
Very well said, Brian. It’s not diversity if everyone’s forced to be the same.
commented 2015-04-24 08:03:14 -0400
Chad, come on, by the content of your posts you seem smarter than what you’re letting on so quit sticking to a position just because you don’t want to give.

This entire controversy is total bullshit. Imagine you are a city council member and a fairly decent person. You believe and worship God. Most of the others on the council either do believe or they don’t care one way or the other or they sort of believe (not decided) but don’t figure it’s worth it to change anything.

Now, you (a person of faith) know that the Councillor next to you is an atheist. But he/she is a decent sort as well. You also know that when the morning prayer is said this person drops the word god and substitutes their own words (my mind or my conscience or whatever) . That’s their choice and they are harming no one by practicing it. Since you a decent person and they are just saying the words not screaming them at the top of their lungs you are pleased that they found a way to accommodate their conscience without affecting others. You ignore it as long as they are not being insulting, rude or vulgar. Then who cares? It’s called getting along. It’s called maturity. It’s not demanding Your way or the highway.

Later your atheist friend leaves council permanently for personal reasons and is replaced by a more militant atheist who can’t stand prayer. It violates his rights. He’s offended. It wastes HIS PRECIOUS TIME. —-Seriously?
This asshole thinks because HE !!!! dislikes religion then there should be no religious practice anywhere. (Ok maybe you can whisper pray at home in the closet with the lights off at 2 am if you don’t tell anyone you did.)

When asshole atheist doesn’t get his way he runs whining to the courts because:
A) The courts are just as anti-christian as he is and he (and everyone else) knows exactly how they will decide.
B) He’s the world’s biggest asshole and can’t stand having people say the word “No” to him.
C) He is convinced that HE! is so much smarter and more logical than anyone else that no one else can be right -just him. (The world revolves around him you know).

Really who’s at fault here?
commented 2015-04-24 07:25:29 -0400
Denying the supremacy of deity over government is a core value od authoritarian statism – prayer must go if we are to descend into the new collective governing order – and to do it this way maintains the illusion of democracy -so it’s a win-win for the forces of statist hegemony.
commented 2015-04-24 03:11:39 -0400
God is a word – that seems to be (note) a thing that - people with greater minds use against lesser people, to control them, spread the word of ___________ and take donations for the cause you know they should all just take their names off of the ledgers and work for free to help us all…. Hmmm a dilema … remove the word and replace it with a political party name.. will it get by..Oh ___ will you buy me a mercedes-Benz -———————————————————
commented 2015-04-24 03:00:45 -0400
Give me book, chapter and verse.
commented 2015-04-24 02:48:41 -0400
Maurice – Your first post wasn’t clear enough, and I took it the wrong way.

As for your “group prayer”, this takes place in a space you have prepared/borrowed, and is what happens when a group of people make the same request of God, which you can do, all you want, but! Your Bible does actually say that you MUST have a prepared space for such an activity, so as to protect yourselves from any potential influence by the devil.

Or am I the only one who reads the King James Version, with all its Old English intact?
commented 2015-04-24 01:41:42 -0400
Chad Kameda, “I am more than accepting of having a moment after that for people to add a quick prayer under their own religion if they so choose. Again their OWN religion, and if THEY CHOOSE”……. That’s EXACTLY what I was advocating in my original post!! So what’s your problem with what it said?!
commented 2015-04-24 01:30:42 -0400
Greg – You can go ahead and pray in public, because you see, you aren’t pushing that on other people to do with you if they do not share your beliefs, versus in places like council rooms, and the house of commons that are/were more or less forcing their “prayer” on other people, as a form of creed.

Now, to be fair, I stated earlier that I would rather see something like an oath that they swear to every start of the day, in place of that prayer, but then I am more than accepting of having a moment after that for people to add a quick prayer under their own religion if they so choose. Again their OWN religion, and if THEY CHOOSE.

Or does your freedom of religion trump someones choice to not be religious? Remember that argument goes both ways!
commented 2015-04-24 00:11:42 -0400
Praying is public is also a freedom of speech issue. But libertarians and judges like to ignore that little fact.
commented 2015-04-23 23:30:38 -0400
Chad Kameda, you have no idea what you’re talking about! I was not talking about preaching, proselytizing or in anyway forcing one’s views on others. And I certainly don’t miss the point of prayer! Prayer is communion with God, as understood by those praying. Preaching, or at least religious preaching, is communion with others ABOUT God, as understood by the preacher. Obviously, I don’t advocate that MPs engage in prayer in a loud disruptive manner. They can do it silently, or quietly in small groups in such a way that won’t disturb those around them. On the other hand, if those around them are disturbed by the mere sight of people praying, tough! They should grow thicker skins. As far as how prayer is defined in the Bible, Scripture speaks of both private and communal prayer. It’s not one or the other, it’s both. And as far as praying in public, or in public spaces is concerned, if we don’t have the freedom to do that, then we don’t have freedom of religion at all, we have an Atheistic theocracy. If I ever feel like praying in public, either alone or with companions, I’ll do it. And if you ever see me doing it and don’t like it, tough! You can just mind you’re own business. And you’re probably right about me not being the best Christian in the world, but I’ll take my Christian counsel from scripture and pastors, not from you.
commented 2015-04-23 23:22:51 -0400
I hate to give Frreethinker any air time, but what he is saying is not the point, he is not on topic, and has nothing really to do with this discussion. “if prayer was shown to work, dying children”,maybe you are in the wrong thread?
commented 2015-04-23 22:59:27 -0400
FreeThinker, you do always seem to like to stir up the pot on articles that contain some mention of religion. Do you have a fixation on religion?

As a “freethinker” who claims to have an open mind, shouldn’t you be pursuing with equal vigor to prove God’s existence as much as not? However, you have already decided He does not exist. Doesn’t sound very open minded of you, nor scientific. The mantra of a scientist is to investigate all possibilities without bias and with equal vigor.
commented 2015-04-23 22:52:24 -0400
“And they say they want to respect the Supreme Court.” -—- why?
The only ones who still insist the Social Engineering Court of Canada does NOT have a left wing bias are lawyers and lefties.

Lawyers maintain the pretext of judicial impartiality because to admit bias on the part of the courts would weaken the power base that lawyers have built for themselves. They have weaseled their way into every aspect of our lives and that makes them a very powerful group. Any admission of bias might negatively affect that.

Liberals insist that the SCOC and judges below them are impartial because they depend on the courts to provide them with predictable victories that they can’t achieve at the ballot box.
commented 2015-04-23 22:30:10 -0400
Stop giving over a cafeteria in a publicly funded school in Toronto to Muslims for Muslim Prayers every Friday and then I may listen to these leaders and hear what they have to say.