June 08, 2015

Pride Toronto in new dispute over men's rights group

Rebel Staff

The non-profit organization that oversees Toronto's "gay pride" parade is embroiled in a "dispute resolution process" after a men's rights group called the Canadian Association for Equality applied to participate in the march.

According to the Toronto Star:

Michael Laxer, an activist who opposes men’s rights groups, said he has been encouraging people to fight CAFE’s inclusion at the parade because “they don’t reflect the values of Pride.”

“The men’s rights movement is a vocal opponent of feminism. The whole premise is asinine,” he said, accusing the group of having ties to anti-feminist websites like A Voice for Men. “When you allow men’s rights groups to march, you legitimize them and mainstream misogyny.”

CAFE executive director Justin Trottier told the Star that his group is not anti-feminist.

“The values of Pride are inclusion and diversity, and those are our values. What I think is happening now is that people who are not familiar with our motives and not taking the time to find out what we are about, are reacting to an ideological point of view.”

CAFE's permit to march in the Pride Toronto parade last year was revoked days before the event "amid concerns about  'the activities and purpose of CAFE and whether they actually match the intent they express.''"

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commented 2015-06-08 19:57:39 -0400
The rest of you need to take a cold shower…good grief!…World Peace? not a chance!
commented 2015-06-08 19:55:33 -0400
Hi Joan…hope you are well…have been missing your arguments : reading different articles, I guess…you were in typical fine form here..folks, .Joan has a wicked pen…and she knows how to wield it…I love it: “Prince Knight – Back off”… I would know it’s you without your name :)

It is strange that your name sounds more Irish than Megan’s…top o’ the mornin’ to ya!…and three cheers for Israel and democracy!
commented 2015-06-08 19:37:22 -0400
Oh and Joan, you called me a terrorist eh? I believe I will see you in court!
commented 2015-06-08 19:35:55 -0400
Joan: I am also Native Canadian Indian you fucktard!
Call me Megy-poo again you racist bitch and I’ll have more to say then just this!
You are the worse kind of Pathtic female out there, feel outraged over everything that has nothing to do with you, yep, proper fucktard you are!
commented 2015-06-08 19:31:58 -0400
Stuart Krahn – Demonizing feminism, the core value of which has always been gender equity, is not “benign”.

You see Prince Knight, below, using the word “feminist” as an insult to try to tear me down? I am a woman whom he would never attack by calling me -“a woman” - but he feels entirely comfortable with attacking me by calling me a “feminist”. Feminists deserve attack … right?

But why exactly? Because men’s groups like CAFE say so?

Look it up – the core value of feminism is and has always been been gender equity. The same core value you think is CAFE’s and the men’s movement’s core value.

So why attack feminists who share the same core value? Shouldn’t the men’s movement join with feminists, like Big Brother and Big Sisters, or like Boy Scouts and Girl Guides?

Why hate feminists?

The denigration of feminism is not benign. It is destructive. If CAFE truly believes in gender equity – and I have seen no hard evidence to say CAFE or any of the men’s movement promote equal rights between men and women – then why don’t they stop attacking women under the guise of attacking feminism that espouses the same core value CAFE claims, and that always has?
commented 2015-06-08 19:16:46 -0400
Prince Knight – Back off. I bet I know more about CAFE than you do.

It may blow you up to learn I went to the trouble of tracking down Trottier’s group before its website was up to get their contact information that I then passed on to 1) a friend whose son is going through a difficult divorce and needs some help, and b) a community teacher who teaches life skills to men at the Ontario Corrections Super Jail in Lindsay.

What have you done recently for men who are hurting? Eh?

Stuart Krahn did not “clue” me in; he stated an opinion unsupported by evidence. Like you have. As to Promise Keepers – no, I’ve heard nothing from feminists – or from anyone else – about them, not just lately but ever. And because you are attacking me, I have no inclination to look at some obscure loser group you recommend.

And since you have shat all over me, listen up, you pompous ass! I am sick to the back teeth of your bigoted hatred of any and all on this site who voice an opinion you don’t like. You and your kind have driven away all sorts of good people whose money and advertising support I am sure therebel.media would have appreciated had they not been made to feel so incredibly unwelcome by your unsheathed hatred of their differences of opinion.

Therebel.media promotes free speech, my ass!
commented 2015-06-08 19:04:04 -0400
Feminism’s core value is gender equality. Ask any authority on the subject. Yet the men’s movement demonizes feminists, by whom they mean women, as male-haters. So then along comes CAFE and states their core value is equity … and we women are all just supposed to STFU, comply, kick off our shoes, cook, clean, make babies and die young so men can make like the Muslims and marry a nice young replacement. You do see, don’t you, why some women moght take issue with that, not because we are shrill and aggrieved shrews but because CAFE’s demonization of and appropriation of feminism’s core value, that CAFE denies, just doesn’t quite pass the sniff test?
commented 2015-06-08 18:59:42 -0400
Then before you demonize some group you know nothing about, Joan, you’d better do some research. Stuart Krahn clued you in. Pay attention and get off your feminist high-horse. Just because there’s a group supporting men does NOT mean they’re anti-women. Nor am I. But I get tired of your ignorance and bias. Check out another men’s group: Promise Keepers. The feminists went ape-shit when this group came out, predicting all kinds of anti-women garbage. Heard a peep from the feminists about this group lately? Hint: there’s been nothing. Why? Because Promise Keepers is NOT anti-women. Neither is CARE. Do some digging before you blanket condemn.
commented 2015-06-08 18:57:51 -0400
Stuart Krahn – Well, of course, the stated CAFE principles are egalitarian. Like CAIR’s are. But some of the data they rely on to blame women for men’s woes is utterly invalid and unreliable.

I hope CAFE will invest in doing some good, solid research that can withstand scrutiny because making claims based on the really badly designed surveys they have, to date, undermines their credibility.

While you may be right that some feminists take issue with CAFE in an aggrieved fashion, to say feminists do – a generalizatin that infers all feminists do – is no better than saying “(all) Men are Rapists”.

You see, Stuart, by claiming it is feminists who take issue with CAFE, you demonize women, you attempt to exclude us from equal rights.

You say CAFE is the “most fundamentally egalitarian of any of the loosely linked groups they could be lumped with … CAFE stand for gay men too” … well, sure. They just don’t stand for women at all.

Instead of blaming the real culprits, the (mostly male) lawyers and judges, for the legal injustices they benoan, CAFE blames those evil feminists, by whom they mostly mean ordinary women divorced by or divorcing their husbands whose family law arguments the courts grant favour.

The men’s movement loves women … in our place. They think there are too many women taking men’s jobs. Too many women in universities. Too many women in professions.

In men’s movement- and CAFE-speak, feminists denotes women.

Prove me wrong, please. With real hard evidence, not anecdotes or opinion. For example, can you produce some CAFE literature that says I’m wrong? That says CAFE does not want women engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc., to stop “taking men’s jobs”?

And can you produce some proof – please – that CAFE has taken no donations from pro-shariah lobby groups or other known misogynist organizations?
commented 2015-06-08 18:39:27 -0400
CAFE would be the most fundamentally egalitarian”. I forgot to add ‘benign’.
commented 2015-06-08 18:08:11 -0400
Actually Joan, CAFE would be the most fundamentally egalitarian of any of the loosely linked groups they could be lumped with. They do not demonize women, they aim for equal treatment. Everything I have seen from them is very reasonable. It is the feminists who take issue with them and do so in an aggrieved fashion, not women. And they stand for gay men, too.
commented 2015-06-08 17:50:06 -0400
Megan – So you did call me Joo-an as an anti-semitic slur. Okay. I’m not surprised. My spelling mistake of your name was an honest typo, which you returned with a vicious and menacing anti-semitic slur. Well, I’m glad you’ve put your cards on the table. Now I know exactly who you are.

Megan, honey, I have never spoken for any gay person. I have only spoken in defense of human rights. Let me let you in on a little secret. We enjoy freedom of expression in Canada. That means you have no right to not be offended by my views. Suck it up, Buttercup.

Show me any Pride marketing that invited gay bashers to march in Pride and I will eat my hat.

You can’t just make things up o try to win, Megs!

Now, you claim that no minority is part of society. So, as an Irish minority, you are not part of society. Okay. Way to shoot yourself in the foot!

Here’s an idea, Megy-poo – since you are CANADIAN (straight-Irish-minority-Canadian) and as such, just want to go about your day, working, raising families, being productive members of society (like no gay person works, has family or has accumulated all that wealth by not beong productive members of society) – why don’t you just get on with it instead of gay bashing so much?

Eh? Since you drunken, inbred, Irish terrorists are all the same … didn’t want you to feel properly represented, as I know you realize you have not properly represented me – why don’t you think this through a little more. You don’t really want to hurl bigotries at me, do you, Kidd?
commented 2015-06-08 15:18:58 -0400
Joan: you misspelled my name first, just returning the favour!
And likewise, you don’t speak for All Gays, only for yourself, thank Christ!
Gay Pride was a show of the strength of gay people, to prove they were worthy of a voice and did not EXCLUDE gay bashers, in fact, Gay bashers were told to come see the Gay Community as a whole, see their value. At least that was the message we got at school back in the day. But if you are saying you are a non-inclusive group then we need to abolish this parade ASAP! Thanks for the heads up on that Joan dear!
BTW, if you are stating you are a minority then you are not part of we, as a whole, of society, make up your mind, you can’t have it both ways!
We, as a whole, are Canadians, no title before it, just Canadians that want to go about our day, working, raising our families, being productive society members. Not whining about our sexualities and who can or can not take part in our parades!
commented 2015-06-08 15:13:31 -0400
Guy Fraser – Do you agree with Megan that Pride should be “forced” to let Queers Against Israeli Apartheid march in the parade?
commented 2015-06-08 15:11:21 -0400
Prince Knight – I included it with the Queers for Israeli Apartheid to see whose ire I might provoke.

Listen, I don’t know if CAFE is pro-shariah or not. But I am suspicious as we all should be of any group that seeks to demonize women.

I like Justin Trottier. I have listened to him debate on the 640toronto Oakley Show for years and have emailed back and forth with him on a number of issues. I recently sat beside him at the hearing of the Ontario Legislature Special Committee on Sexual Violence and Harassment. But I’m not sure his new venture in CAFE does not cater to some pretty hard-core misogynists associated with pro-shariah interests in lawfare tactics that include blaming women for system injustices perpetrated overwhelmingly by (mostly male) Crown lawyers and Crown judges.

Do you have data to prove CAFE has accepted no donations from pro-shariah lobbies?

Women are NOT the enemy.
commented 2015-06-08 15:00:51 -0400
Megan Kidd – You keep misspelling my name “Joo – an” – is that an anti-semitic slur?

You are wrong that the gay pride movement claims or has ever claimed to include everyone. They have always sought protection from and exclusion of gay bashers.

Can you please cite some proof of your claim that gays “feel that their opinions are the only opinions that matter”? There may be a few individuals who think that, but as a group, I think you are wrong.

Or that “we, society, should only allow them their rights”? (BTW, gay people ARE part of ‘we, society’. We don’t segregate them; under the law, they are equals.)

“You gays” – Gee, Megan, is that like “Megan, you pedophile”?

Defending human rights, including for gay people, does not make one gay.

Listen, Megan, you do NOT speak for the majority of good decent heterosexual Canadians. You speak only for yourself. Thank Christ.
commented 2015-06-08 14:08:51 -0400
Proof that the “Pride” movement is about exclusive victim-hood and not inclusive tolerance.
commented 2015-06-08 13:55:30 -0400
Joan, where do you get off calling CAFE a pro-sharia group? You’ve made the accusation; back it up!
commented 2015-06-08 13:23:25 -0400
Jooan: I am just talking about inclusion, like what Gay Pride started out being about. Now are you saying that Queers are above inclusion? Hmmm, funny how times have changed, now Queers are an exclusive, entitled, self absorbed group, that bash Heterosexuals and anyone that has a different view from them?
They feel that their opinions are the only opinions that matter?
That we, society, should only allow them their rights?
Jews are aware that they have an uphill battle, just like us Irish have had in the past. But, where we can work together to make Canada an all inclusive country, you Gays seem to think that your agenda should be high on our list of priorities? It’s not, nor will it ever be, until you work toward an all inclusive country too!
Your Rights and Freedoms do NOT trump mine! Nor do they trumps the good Ladies and Gentlemen of this great country. Try to learn that the world is bigger then you and see yourself more as a Canadian instead of a Queer Canadian please, keep your sex like to yourself.
commented 2015-06-08 11:56:52 -0400
Peter Toth – The narrative CAFE uses for trying to infiltrate the Pride Parade is that they are for equity for everyone, gays included (but not those lying female victims of rape and sex slavery so popular in Islamic caliphates).

Of course, you are right. What CAFE is doing is duplicitous and belies their stated intent to promote the rights of men.
commented 2015-06-08 11:52:18 -0400
Israel is the only democracy in the middle east that has a Pride Parade, so I’m not sure why anyone thinks it is a good idea to let pro-shariah advocacy groups like CAFE and Queers Against Israeli Apartheid take over the Pride events. Next, they will want to segregate genders and make the lesbians march in burkas! And you just know that will hurt sales, folks.

Pride brings in a tremendous amount of revenue every year. Don’t let the pro-shariah leftist lobby fool you with their fabricated outrage against women, Jews, and queers. Because you do know who is next on their target list, don’t you?
commented 2015-06-08 11:47:09 -0400
@peter – I suspect this is a very clever publicity stunt.
commented 2015-06-08 11:47:00 -0400
Meagan Kidd – I only put “force” in quotes because I assumed you meant it figuratively, that you weren’t advocating the criminal offence of gay bashing.

So, you feel so strongly about this that you would allow Queers Against Israeli Apartheid to march in Pride to weaken Israeli democracy just to stick it to the queers?

That is some principle, Meagan.
commented 2015-06-08 11:45:42 -0400
Where can I send my designs for a “Hypocrisy” float?
commented 2015-06-08 11:45:07 -0400
Why would a group who advocate for the rights of real men, and fight against the systematic emasculation and subjugation of men in society and most importantly, in the courts. Want to associate with a group that is part of the feminazi movement, which is at the root of the blatant discrimination that men face today? I don’t agree with the reasoning that the gays have for not wanting to include them, however, I don’t think the mens rights group should be part of the spectacle of a gay parade.
commented 2015-06-08 11:27:12 -0400
So the Gay Pride folks are afraid that they (the gay pride folks) won’t be taken seriously by JQ Public? Puh-leeze! That bus has already left the station.
commented 2015-06-08 10:07:19 -0400
Jooan: Gays “force” themselves on others so yes, like it or lump it, if they apply like Gays do to everything then they should be accepted! It’s the principal of it Jooan!
commented 2015-06-08 10:01:12 -0400
Meagan Kidd – Based on your argument that Pride should be “forced” to include all groups that apply, do you want to also “force” them to include Queers Against Israeli Apartheid? I don’t.
commented 2015-06-08 09:59:29 -0400
Hilarious! These minority groups have been whittling away at men for decades, to the point that men are starting to fight back and reclaim what they’ve lost… and the minorities are crying foul? The true colors (and they ain’t rainbow) are showing..!
commented 2015-06-08 09:56:13 -0400
Sounds like the “angry, over-weight, over 50 lesbians” are at it again. Find the “male pawn” and pump the “man hate”.

No wonder these beasts are dropping like flies from cancer. ONWARD!!!