July 06, 2015

Safe spaces, white tears and getting kicked out of a women's group -- by two men

Lauren SouthernArchive

Lately I've been kicked out of a couple of groups I belong to, for daring to question received wisdom or refusing to go along with the rules of identity politics.

For instance, I was thrown out my university women's group -- by two men! -- for questioning an article on Jezebel about "cultural appropriation."

They explained that the group was supposed to be a "safe space" for people to hold discussions, so why don't I feel very welcome or secure when I'm in one of these "safe spaces"?

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commented 2015-08-06 11:55:01 -0400
When I went to university in the early 90’s, it was the marginalized groups that were anything BUT marginalized. In fact most of these groups didn’t even have actual marginalized persons within these groups. And you are right, these hyper-senstitive leftists feign offense whenever you disagree or even when you don’t agree one way or the other. I think universities themselves should make it their policy that groups do not have the right to just kick a person out of a group just because they have an opinion that opposes theirs.
commented 2015-07-09 19:58:48 -0400
Glenn…my condolences…idea # 3 makes the most sense.
I don’t like their ‘POLICY’ either.
commented 2015-07-09 18:59:55 -0400
Judy, I would like to point out a couple of significant differences between MRA sites university “safe spaces”……

(1) FUNDING…no MRA site gets a nickel from ANY government or university budget…and no we are not located in Stepford Connecticut …..most of our members could not afford golf as a hobby.

(2) On more occassions than I care to recall there has been government funding of feminists to close down our sites.

(3) MRAs and women who are like minded are not free to speak on university campuses and are no safe spaces for men …a good old fashioned men only pub would serve the purpose and not only be self funding….it would be profitable.

(4) No feminist “safe space” is under the scrutiny of university “criminologists” feminists got into criminology when prospects in sociology started looking bleak…and from a feminist perspective being male is just criminal. I am aware of one who used to troll our sites. She has published more papers than there are actual namable individuals who have read even one of them. In spite of lay a decade of her study of men’s groups not one charge has been laid and there have been no convictions….no police force would receive continued funding upon THAT performance review.

Just like Oskar Schindler’s colleague in the NAZI party said….“Oskar…this is not just good old fashioned Jew hatred…this is POLICY
commented 2015-07-09 12:35:05 -0400
Joan, you cite the article and the party leader involved, you are correct. That doesn’t mean you didn’t apply conjecture while not citing those sources. I gave you examples of where you applied conjecture but you ignored them. You miss represent on what grounds I denied your erroneous claim of libel.

Moving on to your next comment where you applied conjecture to my stance on rapists, murderers, robbers, drug dealers and border security. Your only evidence is that is it somehow the “logical” extension to my arguments. Provide to me evidence that I support those positions from my previous statements. Preferably in the structure of a if-then style so it can be clearly shown.

About the censorship, as I stated a more transparent process on this form would be more ideal. The final two points about the graphic porn, and death threats: these are both horrible. Do you have the link for the article and comment page number this was for? Have you considered contacting the rebel admins? I would personally not assume malice when incompetence or ignorance are just as likely. Unfortunately, anonymity while a very helpful tool can be quite easily abused by horrible individuals. These individuals could just as easily continuously repost the mean spirited message or create new accounts to spam it. This problem is no exclusive to TheRebel but is widely felt at most sites (e.g. Twitter, YouTube).
commented 2015-07-09 09:16:28 -0400
I thought journalism was dead. I was wrong.
commented 2015-07-09 06:44:25 -0400
Glenn…you don’t get it do you? Lauren said " I was THROWN OUT (banned) …the group was supposed to be a “safe space” … so why don’t I feel very welcome or secure when I’m in one of these “safe spaces”?" (“Boo hoo….I need a secure safe shoulder to cry on, Glenn, you big strong man”… )

Then YOU say: I have NO HESITATION WHATSOEVER….to ban trolls from the website I monitor…they are free to troll and rant elsewhere. My site is a “safe space” for MEN who have had enough of the bigoted bulldyke bullshit. " ( I have no problem with this part..as I said earlier…Lauren…leave people alone in their safe spaces)

So your site is not a safe space for certain people and neither was Lauren’s university group “safe” for her. Lauren was ‘trolling’ these safe spaces, just like the people you ban from your site for trolling a safe space, and they banned her “bigoted…bull…” as you call trolling. So she comes here to rant and weep where the men are older and more easily influenced by her youthful voluptuous charms that she so graciously conceals beneath the lovely top that seems to be slowly slipping downward (oops!), so people will take her seriously. So why do you seem to approve of HER rant when she admits she is a (“polite”) troll in like manner to the ones you seem to despise? Bigotry makes strange bedfellows.
commented 2015-07-08 10:20:51 -0400
“Lauren…I hope you have learned a lesson on this thread”
LOL. I’m sure she has. Let me sum up the learnings for Laurel,
a) Banal ideas stated baldly are boring. Banal ideas brandished as a manifesto before an audience of enraged ideologues can earn you a living. (Call it the Coulter Principle).
b) The only thing that matters here is the number of eyeballs you can attract to a page. Clicks pay the rent.
commented 2015-07-08 01:56:32 -0400
Lauren…I hope you have learned a lesson on this thread…….in dealing with this sort of subject matter…..the best you can hope for is that you and the like minded will be shouted down.

This is why I have NO HESITATION WHATSOEVER….to ban trolls from the website I monitor….I have not impeded their freedom of speech….they are free to troll and rant elsewhere.

My site is a “safe space” for men who have had enough of the bigoted bulldyke bullshit.
commented 2015-07-07 22:48:47 -0400
Good one, Lauren!
commented 2015-07-07 22:30:09 -0400
Nil Moon, the point is that therebel.media does not censor equally. I flagged posts that called another poster “pervert” “pedophile” and “queer” for supporting the changes to the Ontario sex-ed curriculum. Therebel.media did not censor them, despite they violate the comments rules.

Therebel.media did not remove graphic sadistic porngraphy about me written and posted against my will, nor did they remove the many comments applauding the description of me being forcibly undressed and brutally assaulted.

Therebel.media did not remove the death threat I got. I sent a copy to police, though.
commented 2015-07-07 22:26:29 -0400
Jimmy, Nil Moon wants freedom for all, for rapists, murderers, robbers, drug dealers … I bet he is one of those no borders advocates. You know, no one is illegal. That is what the logic of his argument suggests.
commented 2015-07-07 22:23:56 -0400
Dave Sharp – What? Your post is largely incomprehensible but I’ll give a go at a reply.

Let’s just look at a hypothetical. Let’s say Lauren wins her seat for the Libertarian riding of Langley and goes on to tell her constituents she represents the Libertarian Party with her view there is no rape culture in Canada.

Who is going to pay the costs of the many, many lawsuits against her party? You?

The Libertarian Party does not violate liberty by choosing to suspend someone they cannot trust. They are, in fact, exercising liberty and freedom by so doing. You don’t like it so you call them Communists. Sour grapes is what you suck on.
commented 2015-07-07 22:18:16 -0400
Nil Moon, you did so libel me. I did not use conjecture. In fact, I cited quotations from Libertarian Party of Canada leader, Tim Moen’s official reasons for suspending her. He says she broke party rules, went rogue. That is not conjecture. That is fact. He said her views that there is no rape culture in Canada violate the party’s mission statement. Don’t believe me? Check it out for yourself. It’s fact, Nil Moon, not conjecture, and your claim about me is libel intended to sully me.
commented 2015-07-07 22:14:15 -0400
Judy, are you serious? Of course not. Are you? To suggest poor old Lauren can’t take the heat? She needs a hug? She need therebel.media to be her safe place? Come on! Lauren is more sophisticated and tough than that. She enjoys the controversy. It sells her brand. She knows her views are provocative. That’s why she posts them. Read her other sites. She loves gay people, trans people, and she calls what she writes satire. Satire, not serious journalism. Entertainment. Lauren Southern is not hurt one little bit by disagreement. She likes it.
commented 2015-07-07 22:07:46 -0400
What I despise about poor losers like HAKIM ABU-SHAABAN is that they are such liars, haters, two-time baiters …

Where do I call Southern a misogynist? Eh, Hakim the deceiver? That’s right. I don’t. Some of her views are misogynist. Not the same thing as your lie, Hak. You should apologize and take it back. Fat chance, though, eh Hak?

Hakim, honey, I do not own third-wave feminism. In fact, I am not a brown woman at all. I am a white woman. Why call it “your third wave feminism”? That’s like me calling you an ISIS jihadi. I think. Well, at least I’m not a 3rd wave feminist.

Do you have any idea what a third-wave feminist is? It’s a fringe movement funded by global jihadi misogynists that aims to make the west pay for so-called white privilege. It promotes inequity, specifically that brown women should rule everyone else with no questions asked. You know, sort of like how ISIS women rule the ISIS slave trade. They take orders from men to rule. That’s what third-wave feminism is. In other words, it is not feminism at all.

Feminism is an equity movement, with the core value and purpose of achieving gender equity – not racist supremacy. You really should check out a dictionary or consult a little history before you attack, attack, attack. It’s so unbecoming.

You’ve made misogynist conclusions about things I never said. Oh, maybe I’m being too mean, Hakim. Are you psychotic? Do you suffer from constitutional dishonesty? If so, my condolences. Otherwise, you are simply a liar. Try using logic.

Another thing I despise about misogynists like Hakim (one good hyperbole deserves another, eh, Hak?) is that you think a Facebook poll is conclusive research. LOLOLOL.

In addition, I think you are using the term “irony” incorrectly. It is not rain on your wedding day, Hak. If Moen’s wife called Southern “jerk off material” it could have been a compliment – you know, like as in her scanty dress, hair extensions, makeup and pouty posture is a bit of a tease and an irresistible hard on for men who are lonely and can only jerk off. Eh?

The Libertarian Party has not gone off script at all. Show me anywhere in any of their literature ever where it says they agree with Lauren that there is no rape culture in Canada, that Ontario MPP Laurie Scott is wrong that sex slavery of children in Canada is growing. Can you do that, Hak? Of course, you can’t. Oh, and if you don’t know it, whenever a child is sold into prostitution for sex slavery, it is rape. Under law, Hak. Under law, or do you not believe in Canadian law?

You see, Hak, you claim I have no right to mention sex slavery because Lauren didn’t mention it. Do you hold, then, that no one can post any remark except to parrot whatever the video host says? Bizarro-ville is Hak’s home, it seems, if so.

I can say whatever I want, Hak, including that the fact, the fact, Hak, it’s a fact, of growing sex slavery of children in Canada refutes Southern’s claim there is no rape culture in Canada. There is a rape culture and it is growing. In addition to that exploitive rape culture, like the one in Rotherham that was suppressed by people like you so Muslim rapists could prey on British girls, there is a growing misogynist culture in Canada that promotes a monetary value of women at half that of men, that promotes child marriage and honour crimes, that opposes education for girls, that promotes FGM. That is why the Libertarian Party wants to disassociate itself from Southern’s argument that there is no rape culture in Canada and that men are the victims, not women. The Libertarian Party of Canada is a legitimate political party. It is not bigoted. It wants a 10% piece of the Canadian political establishment pie. It believes in our democracy, including our Charter equity.

You claim all my arguments crumble at the slightest due diligence fact checking, yet you have done no fact checking at all, Hakky, baby. Be honest. Admit it. You’re a misogynist. You hate smart women. You want to shut us up. You’ll feel better once you just get it off your chest. Go ahead. Admit it. At least to yourself. Look in the mirror, Narcissy Hak Honey boy.
commented 2015-07-07 18:56:34 -0400
Fair point, that is a little hypocritical. I would recommend you review the commenting rules outlined: http://www.therebel.media/comment_rules to prevent your comments from being removed. The ‘Flag This Comment’ option is rather secretive and I am in favour of a more robust and transparent system.
However, you’ve backed away from your original point. I don’t recall Ezra ever stating that the comment sections are free of censorship. Your original point that him calling for media organizations to not self censor is not hypocritical. To summarize; having a comment section on a website that removes comments that do not comply with the rules for commenting is censorship and voids any opinions the owner(s) (Ezra) has about other cases of censorship (MSM selective self censorship)? That seems a little rich.
commented 2015-07-07 15:41:54 -0400

The Rebel deletes/censors comments made here in the comments section. There are no potential lawsuits happening in that regard. It’s hypocrisy.
commented 2015-07-07 15:17:05 -0400
Jimmy, oh so now the actual situation doesn’t matter. As I’ve explained the types of censorship are different (state vs self) if you do not see or do not wish to see the difference fair enough. You are simply over generalizing and then complaining that an individual is not standing up for their principles after the state forced them to contradict their principles.

I believe in free speech and that an individual should be able to speak freely without worry that a state is going to come and silence them. However given current legal precedent I’m inclined not to speak as freely or face the legal and social consequences. However that does not make me hypocritical for calling for laws to be changed to increase free speak just because for now I do not speak free and would advise other to not speak freely as well.
commented 2015-07-07 15:03:09 -0400

I find that one is no position to call others out for censorship if they are doing the same thing. The reasons why don’t matter. It’s blatant hypocrisy.
commented 2015-07-07 15:00:08 -0400

In regard to my Donald Trump/Lauren Southern comment – I was referring more to all the companies that find him to be embarrassing and that have cut ties with him. But even the GOP wants him to shut up as his comments are only going to have a negative impact on Republicans. They desperately need the vote from people he is offending.
commented 2015-07-07 14:33:51 -0400
Jimmy, so you are content with the state bulling the citizens into submission?

Also you are drawing a faulty comparison between the state imposed censorship onto Ezra and by extension TheRebel and the self imposed censorship of other media organizations. Several contributors here including Ezra have pointed out that the MSM (Main Stream Media) have self censored when it came to Charlie Hebdo (showing the satirical pictures of Christians and Jews but refusing to show the ones relating the Muslims) because of ‘tolerance’. These are very different where one is being forced to sit down and the other is to have never stood up in the first place.

He should continue to call them out for their self censorship. Also he should call out the state in the event that they are censored by the state as well. I do find it amusing that you do suggest that he should start self censoring himself when it comes to the censorship of other news organizations. Since I’m against the censorship I’d prefer to see less censorship, but it seems to me you wish to increase the censorship of news commentators and of individuals in general.
commented 2015-07-07 14:25:25 -0400
Jimmy, you’re comparison of Lauren Southern to Donald Trump is incorrect. The republicans are the second party and have enjoyed political power so it is likely they will actually get back into power at some point. Also, Lauren Southern was a candidate and was not running for the top job (as Trump is doing). Completely different situations.

I will agree with you however, the parties leaders do consider her damaging to their branding and I understand why they wanted to cut her loose. I find it interesting how much of a separation there is between the Libertarian party and the libertarian ideology. For example no debate, mocking or questioning the party’s position, you must stick to the message or be kicked out. In my opinion that sounds totalitarian and silly coming from a party that ought to be championing freedom for all.
commented 2015-07-07 14:19:02 -0400

Fair enough. Then he should shut the fuck up about censorship at other media sources – until he is prepared to put his money where his mouth is with The Rebel.
commented 2015-07-07 14:13:47 -0400
Sometimes a person can just become an embarrassment to a certain brand, company or political party and it’s just best to cut them loose before they cause further damage. Lauren Southern was the Donald Trump so to speak to the The Libertarian Party of Canada.
commented 2015-07-07 14:05:53 -0400
Quote: The Libertarian Party of Canada suspended Lauren’s 2015 federal candidacy for the riding of Langley because the Libertarian Party does not oppose gender equity, equity of opportunity and remuneration between men and women (and all permutations in between).

Really? And all permutations in between? Isn’t that the very antithesis of the Libertarian mission of limited government, yet in this instance, they are the very civil body that reassigns and identifies the very definition of humanity. Hell, that sounds a lot like communism to me. Where is her freedom, huh? Where is her personal autonomy to decide inside your libertarian box using science, reason, and logic? You disagree so you kick her out since your safe space was violated huh? If it gender is clearly evident to the eyes and senses, why is it necessary for the official body to even bother to reclassify all permutations in between when personal freedom and autonomy and the absolute lack definition is one of the very rocks libertarianism is built upon. To be free is to decide for yourself. Sounds like Langley libertarians are over stepping the mark. To even mention it is to betray the libertarian principles and because personal autonomy stands with reason, it should not be necessary. To kick someone out sounds cynically authoritative, one sided and abusive to me. I suggest your group stops representing libertarianism before you do any more damage and call yourselves for what you are, an extension of the NDP or communist party. By the way, are you sure you don’t mean anarchy because it sounds very much like your libertariansim is a box with rubber band sides to me.
commented 2015-07-07 13:57:47 -0400
As per your previous point about censorship from the party claiming libel. While at the Sun Media as well as in his previous positions he did defend himself. As a new owner of a small business it would seem the more appropriate course of action is to take the route that saves the company from a libel lawsuit that will cost a large amount of money and time to defend and given current legal precedent is unlikely to be won.

Do I like that Ezra had to sacrifice his ideology to maintain his business venture? Of course I don’t. I also don’t hold it against him. Sometimes it is smarter to retreat from a battle you cannot win to win the larger war.

Trying to paint Ezra as some tyrant that censors his own site really doesn’t make too much sense. What you’re really trying to say is: “Hey look Ezra doesn’t follow his own principles!” while ignoring the fact that he is compelled to by the state to abandon his principles in order to avoid lawsuit and keep working/running TheRebel. Why not ask why the state is forcing him to abandon his principles rather than him abandoning his principles?
commented 2015-07-07 13:38:52 -0400

Lawsuit by whom exactly? And Ezra’s been sued many times for lying and libel. So he is quite used to lawsuits and insists that he won’t change.
commented 2015-07-07 13:17:54 -0400
Cory, Yeah gotta love the Internet (in the countries that don’t heavily censor the Internet).
commented 2015-07-07 13:12:36 -0400
Lauren’s articles really bring out the best in everyone. Gotta love all the freedom of expression we’re seeing here today. Go internet, cause we all know most people can’t say half this crap to someone in person.