November 28, 2017

Study Blows Massive Hole in Pro-Gun Control Narrative

Rebel Staff

The left is constantly trying to make it look like gun control is the only answer to lowering the rate of gun crimes and mass shootings. That's why it came as bad news this week when a new study blew this notion out of the water.

A yearlong study from the leftwing group The Trace found that criminals stealing firearms from gun owners is actually what's fuelling gun crimes across America. 

A yearlong investigation by The Trace and more than a dozen NBC TV stations identified more than 23,000 stolen firearms recovered by police between 2010 and 2016 — the vast majority connected with crimes. That tally, based on an analysis of police records from hundreds of jurisdictions, includes more than 1,500 carjackings and kidnappings, armed robberies at stores and banks, sexual assaults and murders, and other violent acts committed in cities from coast to coast.

“The impact of gun theft is quite clear,” said Frank Occhipinti, deputy chief of the firearms operations division for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. “It is devastating our communities.”

Thefts from gun stores have commanded much of the media and legislative attention in recent years, spurred by stories about burglars ramming cars through storefronts and carting away duffel bags full of rifles and handguns. But the great majority of guns stolen each year in the United States are taken from everyday owners.

This obliterates progressives' claim that making it more difficult to buy guns will stop mass shootings. In fact, their stricter gun control laws will do nothing to lower gun crime rates because "bad guys" will always find a way to get their hands on weapons regardless of what the law is.

This has been proven in Democrat-run cities like Chicago, where gun crime rates have continued to soar despite the strict gun laws that are in place. Last week, Chicago surpassed 600 homicides in 2017. Criminals simply continued to get their hands on guns through non-legal means and continued to use them to commit crimes. 

In the end, stricter gun control laws will only punish the law-abiding gun owners who have no intention of committing crimes. While criminals will always find a way to get weapons, those who follow the law will be left unable to defend themselves if stricter gun control laws will be put in place. It's naive of the left to think that gun control laws will magically solve the issue of shootings in America, when in reality this issue is far more complex than that. 

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commented 2017-12-01 19:06:56 -0500
You nailed it Andy. That’s why in Canada we have draconian prison sentences for those who “allow” their firearms to be stolen.

Did you know that we also have capital punishment for inanimate objects in Canada? If a gun is used in a crime- however insignificant- they are cut up. That’ll teach those bad old guns to load themselves and threaten people.
commented 2017-12-01 03:02:24 -0500
Gotta love it!,, Ms. Stephenson quote :-“Where are these guns coming from, and would the supply be reduced by more effective gun control measures in the source locales (which are, interestingly, overwhelmingly domestic)?”. Most of these weapons have their ultimate origins in legal purchases, then get stolen from irresponsible owners". Got to love that “logic”… So guns are stolen from law abiding citizens, but apparently “irreponsible”,sold in masses on Southside Chicago street corners, but the law abiding citizens are to blame? Ah yes, “more effective gun control measures in the source locales”… So the fact that the guns are stolen from law abiding citizens puts the “control” of theft in on their backs!?!… And by the same “logic”, if fewer law abiding citizens didn’t own legally acquired guns then the “stealers” would see the error of their ways and just go “shoot pool” at the neighbourhood bar? Your brain Ms. Stephenson,I humbly suggest, is really, really, in need of “logic” repair…
commented 2017-11-30 21:35:12 -0500
Andrew, the gun death narrative is BS. Murder is murder. The statement that Mother Jones makes about gun deaths being traumatizing supposes that knife deaths and beatings are less so? More lefty emotional nonsense. When my daughter’s birth mother was knifed to death in Toronto it was plenty traumatizing. Possibly even more than a gunshot should have been because of the savage goriness of it. Her half sister who found her on the floor is plenty traumatized and will be for the rest of her life.
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I’ll also point out that MN is a strong Democrat state which is a major hole in the Democrat = crime thesis.
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Then you would be lying once again. Out of the 87 counties in MN only 9 voted Democrat. No doubt they are the ones that contain the biggest cities which is typically the ones who vote democrat.

Source: National Public Radio
https://www.npr.org/2016/11/08/501073212/minnesota-2016-presidential-and-state-election-results

The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart. Tilting at the windmills of certain inanimate objects being more evil than others is exactly that.- tilting at windmills. For any change to take place the human heart needs to change but I know that most people, especially lefties, do not want to go in that direction. Much easier (but less effective) to ban certain mechanisms.

The Prophet Jeremiah said it well and it has been true for the 3000 years since he said it:
“The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can understand it.”
commented 2017-11-30 12:50:51 -0500
“Andy Neimers commented 10 hours ago
Once again you’re playing “statistical bullshit” Ms. Stephenson!… Chicago’s total population may “mask” the actual crime rate but not the fact that the five worst neighbourhoods in Southside Chicago, per capita, have the highest ILLEGAL gun violence in the USA

Where are these guns coming from, and would the supply be reduced by more effective gun control measures in the source locales (which are, interestingly, overwhelmingly domestic)?". Most of these weapons have their ultimate origins in legal purchases, then get stolen from irresponsible owners.

“Al Peterson commented 4 hours ago

“How about state to neighbouring province? Manitoba with all the Canadian gun laws has almost double the murder rate of demographically similar and neighbouring North Dakota and Minnesota who both allow concealed carry.”

Why don’t you compare some other pairings? There are 2, sometimes 3 out of about 18 pairings, where the US does better. One of those, ND vs MB, isn’t demographically valid (ND has no large cities), and one of them goes back and forth due to variability in the rates (MT vs SK). All other pairings, Canada wins by a large margin, even in cases where large-urban (Quebec) abuts rural (NH). Canada’s overall crime rate is lower than Minnesota’s. I’ll also point out that MN is a strong Democrat state which is a major hole in the Democrat = crime thesis.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/gun-owners-study-one-in-three/\
Take a look at the last graph and let me know what you think.

“Al Peterson commented 14 hours ago
2016 Election
- Baltimore voted 85% Democrat
-Detroit 66.4% Democrat
-DC 90.9% Democrat
-Las Vega 52.4% Democrat
- Chicago 73.9 % Democrat

And that is according to the NY Times:"

Yeah, if I was Black I wouldn’t vote for Trump either.

The safest cities also tend to be Democrat strongholds, by the way. Therein lies the danger of cherry-picking.

Your Crimewatch data is only for the 30 largest cities, which excludes the mid-size centres with the highest crime. St. Louis isn’t even in this analysis despite having a higher crime rate than anything that is, and Memphis (another high crime city) is “data not available” on your ranking. The biggest cities tend to be Democrat strongholds by nature and setting the cutoff to include only the largest cities might obscure some pretty crucial underlying trends. Your “Democrat” bias actually looks like selection bias that is based upon a related but distinct variable.
commented 2017-11-30 08:16:59 -0500
Compare apples to apples. National to national…
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How about state to neighbouring province? Manitoba with all the Canadian gun laws has almost double the murder rate of demographically similar and neighbouring North Dakota and Minnesota who both allow concealed carry.
commented 2017-11-30 08:13:35 -0500
Yes, Andy, like I said, statistics don’t lie but liars use statistics.And the have to adjust and twist and massage them to get the spin they want.
commented 2017-11-30 07:56:40 -0500
It isn’t gun control that is needed but another kind of control and education.
commented 2017-11-30 07:54:58 -0500
And the neighbourhoods of West Englewood, Englewood, Riverdale, Auburn, Gresham and Fuller Park are predominantly what type of neighbourhoods?
commented 2017-11-30 02:43:45 -0500
Quote:- “The top five for violent crime rates are St. Louis, Detroit, Memphis, Milwaukee, Baltimore, which is a real political grab bag. LA’s got a high absolute number, but when you adjust for population it doesn’t even make the top 20 (nor does Chicago, for that matter)”… Once again you’re playing “statistical bullshit” Ms. Stephenson!… Chicago’s total population may “mask” the actual crime rate but not the fact that the five worst neighbourhoods in Southside Chicago, per capita, have the highest ILLEGAL gun violence in the USA… Of the five most violent communities in Chicago, West Englewood, Englewood, Riverdale, Auburn Gresham and Fuller Park are “killing fields”… Riverdale – population just 6,800! – is the third most violent per capita kill zone…
commented 2017-11-29 22:17:27 -0500
From Crime Watch Daily:

It’s not a statistic any city wants to be tagged with: murders up by 72 percent. But it’s a reality for the city of Chicago this year.

In today’s Heat Map, we look at the nation’s biggest cities with the highest murder rates according to recently released data.

And even though Chicago has the most murders of any city in the country, it comes in at number five of the list of homicides per 100,000 people.

Number 4 on that list: Sin City, Las Vegas, Nevada.

Number 3: Washington, D.C., and what’s troubling is the murder rate jumped 51 percent in a year.

Number 2: Detroit, Michigan, the good news here: the number of murders were down year to year.

The new Number 1 city, overtaking Detroit as the place with the highest murder rate in the country: Baltimore, Maryland, with homicides up 63 percent.
commented 2017-11-29 16:34:00 -0500
Andrew when the world economy collapses including 🇨🇦 and anarchy and chaos follows you will find out the hard way but hey keep swallowing the red pills . SSS
commented 2017-11-29 16:33:11 -0500
Al Peterson commented 6 mins ago

“Gotta love those qualifiers. Who cares if it is developed? The highest murder rates in the world are all in country’s with strict gun control.”

The highest murder rates are in failed states where the concept of gun control is laughable.

We care if it’s developed because we’re only looking at one variable which is gun ownership. Comparable nations that differ only on gun control laws would be ideal. Yes, Haiti’s murder rate is way higher than the US. That’s probably not because of their supposedly strict gun control laws.

“If one removed the Democrat strongholds like DC, Detroit, NY, LA, and most notably Chicago and others they would have one of the lowest inspire of the arms they own. The Democrat strongholds where guns are banned have the highest murder rates. The only conclusion is that we Democrat and- by extension- liberal control. "

The top five for violent crime rates are St. Louis, Detroit, Memphis, Milwaukee, Baltimore, which is a real political grab bag. LA’s got a high absolute number, but when you adjust for population it doesn’t even make the top 20 (nor does Chicago, for that matter). At the state level, top five for murder rate are Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, and California. Decidedly Republican skewed.

Compare apples to apples. National to national, the US is bad relative to Canada (4.9 vs 1.7/100k). The worst Canadian city (usually Regina, Saskatoon, or Winnipeg) are somewhere around 3-5/100k, St. Louis is 60. Toronto tends about 2/100k. Manitoba, our worst province, is about 3.5/100k. Alabama, their worst, is 8.4. Their best, NH, at 1.3 is higher than Quebec, at 0.9. Yes, their rural states do better than some of our big cities, but our rural areas do better than theirs, and our cities do better than theirs. Canada looks a lot better on violent crime if you ignore violent crime too. Overall, unless you go out of the way to cherry pick information, we do way better on just about every metric.
commented 2017-11-29 16:03:57 -0500
Al Peterson commented 8 mins ago

And why is that Andrew? If you knew your history you’d know the real reason for it. It was so important to them they enshrined in in their constitution."

So they can form informal militias in case the Brits decide to try to reclaim their rebellious colony, or perhaps one of the Continental powers tries instead. The Second Amendment is about a new nation without much military power being able to defend itself. This is the same reason the Swiss arm themselves, though unlike the US they don’t actually carry their guns around in hip holsters, the reasoning being that you’ll have enough warning of an invasion to get home and arm yourself. Somewhere along the line the Americans decided shooting each other was more exciting, possibly because becoming a military superpower had rendered the original purpose of an informal militia moot.

“The old argument that guns were made to kill people is irrelevant. Hockey sticks were made to play a game but they have been used as weapons times without m number…”
Again, the Second Amendment is intended – and interpreted – specifically for firearms used as weapons against some threat even though the nature of that threat has changed over time. Hunting and target shooting are indeed sports, but a concealed-carry handgun is not being carried for that purpose. Its intent and sole purpose is to injure and/or kill threats.

Further, it’s possible to have gun laws in place that are relatively permissive for sports-shooting, while heavily restricting weapons (ie, as Canada does). The two are separate issues, except for the Americans who seem to think that carrying around large-calibre military weapons designed to kill a man in one shot, explicitly as a weapon, is somehow in the same category as target shooting with a small-calibre rifle that’s left secured at the range.
commented 2017-11-29 16:01:47 -0500
ANDREW STEPHENSON commented 3 hours ago
I’m saying that in the present day, countries with strict gun control laws have lower violent crime rates than those without.
This is statistically a true statement. The US has a violent crime rate far higher than any other developed nation.
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Gotta love those qualifiers. Who cares if it is developed? The highest murder rates in the world are all in country’s with strict gun control.

The reality is that the US-by the UN’s own stats- is not even in the top 100 in the world. If one removed the Democrat strongholds like DC, Detroit, NY, LA, and most notably Chicago and others they would have one of the lowest inspire of the arms they own. The Democrat strongholds where guns are banned have the highest murder rates. The only conclusion is that we Democrat and- by extension- liberal control.

Here is the American Reality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

Here is the Canadian reality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COMGzugvsGM

Funny how those who know the least about the subject hold such strong opinions masked as " statistically true statements". As my old drafting teacher said in high school; “Statistics don’t lie. But liars use statistics.”
commented 2017-11-29 15:38:03 -0500
ANDREW STEPHENSON commented 3 hours ago
Guns are literally the only potential weapon in which the Americans very deliberately go out of their way to ensure access, and stop preventative measures from being put into place.
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And why is that Andrew? If you knew your history you’d know the real reason for it. It was so important to them they enshrined in in their constitution.

The old argument that guns were made to kill people is irrelevant. Hockey sticks were made to play a game but they have been used as weapons times without m number…

Same for:
baseball bats and golf clubs and cars and trucks and airplanes and axes and chainsaws and toothbrushes and screw drivers and rocks and water and pillows and butcher knives and ropes and extension cords and pitchers and chairs (a place of honour in our family history) and pipes and rebar and tires and radios, and sticks (pointed or other wise. Remember Deborah in the Book of Judges?) and machetes (Those Hutu’s were real swingers) and hammers ( you do remember Maxwell Silver Hammer, don’t you?) and acid and bleach, and drain cleaner, and fireplace pokers (remember Professor Plumb?) and 16 ton weights and …

Man I’m getting tired out. Anyone o want to continue the list?
commented 2017-11-29 12:15:10 -0500
“Ron Christensen commented 18 hours ago
Andrew People kill people, nothing more nothing less and your example of 911 supports my example . Planes don’t fly into buildings by themselves therefore the planes were being used as a tool by terrorists to kill people . "

Although we are pretty accepting of occasionally very invasive legal means to try and prevent that from happening again, do we not? Guns are literally the only potential weapon in which the Americans very deliberately go out of their way to ensure access, and stop preventative measures from being put into place.

“Drew Wakariuk commented 13 hours ago
Andrew Stephenson are you saying there was little violence before guns then? "

I’m saying that in the present day, countries with strict gun control laws have lower violent crime rates than those without.

This is statistically a true statement. The US has a violent crime rate far higher than any other developed nation.
commented 2017-11-28 23:56:25 -0500
Yep.. more grave dancing this dec 6 from Heidi.!!
commented 2017-11-28 23:14:24 -0500
Andrew Stephenson are you saying there was little violence before guns then?
commented 2017-11-28 19:28:55 -0500
The result of another liberal study:

Canada to pay staggering $113mn to victims of ‘gay purge’ – reports

Suddenly I am gay!
commented 2017-11-28 19:27:38 -0500
Annie… Freedom as part of their culture
commented 2017-11-28 18:53:26 -0500
I started to write a reply to idiot ANDREW STEPHENSON regarding his comments, but deleted several starts and tries. Because I figured what is the use – no matter what anyone says does or explains, no one can penetrate that thick skull of Andrew, and if anyone is successful they will only find empty space.
ANDREW STEPHENSON you continue to believe what you want to and leave the big problems to adults. Its the adults that will look after you when trouble comes to harm you, it’s the adults that will protect you in spite of yourself.
commented 2017-11-28 18:16:09 -0500
And we wait for December 6th, when the government will dance in the blood of the Montreal victims and announce new gun controls. Using this to push its agenda.
commented 2017-11-28 18:14:07 -0500
Andrew People kill people, nothing more nothing less and your example of 911 supports my example . Planes don’t fly into buildings by themselves therefore the planes were being used as a tool by terrorists to kill people . I could go on and on but I see that you have been red pilled so until you take the blue pill we will always agree to disagree .
commented 2017-11-28 17:59:58 -0500
“Leviticus 20:13 commented 1 hour ago
Once again Annie I think you got that wrong… Americans are not pre-disposed to violence they are pre-disposed to freedom, self-defence and a preservation of their way of life with the armed means to do so… Stallin, Lennon, Pol pot, Edi Amin,”
Perhaps predisposed isn’t the best term, but that they have a huge problem with violence, and gun violence, relative to other developed nations is indisputable. What causes that?

Do you really think the US is experiencing “Freedom” as its founding fathers intended, when you consider the invasive security procedures put in place since 9/11, constant attempts to legislate away behaviour that, although objectively harmless, some find distasteful, and protectionist policies that ensure the government is the one dictating consumer choices? Oh, but you can buy an automatic weapon with no oversight, so I suppose if you limit “freedoms” to those described solely in the second amendment, you would be right.

“Mike Krchnak commented 37 mins ago
All knowing Andrew….said “I’ll concede that it could be cultural, and that probably contributes… but part of that culture is their obsession with weapons.“ You see all knowing one, you leftist regressive clowns just can’t help yourselves can you. You started that sentence making perfect sense, then threw in your leftist regressive fucktardisms at the end”

You disagree, in far more words, with my assessment that their weapon obsession is part of their culture?
commented 2017-11-28 17:43:59 -0500
Andrew, your comments confirm you lack a true understanding of the issues.

I have listened to this speaker at other times and she is about to give you a good history lesson.
WWII Survivor Warns of SOCIALISM and GUN CONTROL!
“Kitty Werthmann, an Austrian World War II survivor, gives her account of Hitler’s takeover of Austria. The similarities to today’s left and their “progressive agenda”, are staggering!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-awkYhtey50 I saw this video approx. 3 years ago and it is excellent.

This is a short video titled “Best 7 minutes on gun control I have ever seen!”
“In this segment of his Virtual State of the Union, the Virtual President talks about why politicians want to talk about gun control rather than crime control, and delivers the factual evidence and historical truths that make the case for the Second Amendment self-evident.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5ELyG9V1SY

This video is also very informative Andrew, invest the time to watch it.
Gun Control History MUST SEE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVs9psi_G5k
commented 2017-11-28 17:23:09 -0500
All knowing Andrew….said “I’ll concede that it could be cultural, and that probably contributes… but part of that culture is their obsession with weapons.“ You see all knowing one, you leftist regressive clowns just can’t help yourselves can you. You started that sentence making perfect sense, then threw in your leftist regressive fucktardisms at the end. I quit reading after that knowing it would just degrade from there. Trying to reason with zealots like you is like banging ones head against a wall……….it feels good once you stop.
commented 2017-11-28 17:02:29 -0500
ANDREW STEPHENSON commented…a lot of delusional anti-gun-nut lies and fascist zombie BS.

To ad hominem or to not ad hominem?

So numb-nuts, since no one around here except the other trolls buys any of your stupid crap, why don’t you take your anti-gun-nut BS and fascist lies and shove them up your diseased b…

OK. So I edited the rest out. I guess this is me compromising…
commented 2017-11-28 17:01:08 -0500
Once again Annie I think you got that wrong… Americans are not pre-disposed to violence they are pre-disposed to freedom, self-defence and a preservation of their way of life with the armed means to do so… Stallin, Lennon, Pol pot, Edi Amin,
Fidel Castro and every other cunt who disarmed his people are predisposed to violence to maintain their power over them.
commented 2017-11-28 16:30:50 -0500
Don’t forget Annie… A vicious offence by a criminal is countered by a great defence by the good guys.. One carries an illegal firearm one does not… Can you tell which is the good guy .. or have you fallen too far down the rabbit hole to understand what self-defence means.?

Every dictator every ruler every king every leader of a country that started off being benign and good that disarmed his countrymen ended up slaughtering the people wholesale.
History is full of examples..