January 12, 2016

You’re either an Islamophobe or a misogynist. Pick one.

Lauren SouthernArchive

Every day I see people advocate for a concept of “Islamic feminism” and it honestly blows my mind.

There are a number of injunctions made against women in Islamic texts. Female genital mutilation is endorsed by Islamic authorities and is widespread in Islamic countries.

Throughout the years, Islamic scholars have likened women to “animals”, “slaves”, and “plants”. Doesn’t it sound like Islam values women’s rights?

There are still people who think Islam and feminism can be reconciled. It’s time to debunk that nonsense. According to progressive logic, you’d have to be an Islamophobe or a misogynist. You can’t be both.

Progressives, I would like you to read some verses from the Qur’an and Hadiths:

* Qur'an (2:228) “Men have a status above women.”

* Qur'an (4:11) (on inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females"

* Qur'an (2:282) (on court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women."

* Qur'an (2:223) "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..."

* Qur’an (4:34) “If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them.”

* Bukhari (6:301) "[Mohammed] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?'  They replied in the affirmative.  He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

* Al-Tirmidhi (3272)  "When [Mohammed] was asked which woman was best he replied, 'The one who pleases (her husband) when he looks at her, obeys him when he gives a command, and does not go against his wishes regarding her person or property by doing anything of which he disapproves'."

* Abu Dawud (11:2142) “[Mohammed] A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.”

* Al-Tabari, Vol. 9, pp. 112  "[Mohammed] You have rights over your wives….You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and beat them”

Concordantly, Sharia law endorses misogyny. Qur’an verse 4:34 has been invoked to endorse wife-beating. Qur’an verses 2:228 and 6:301 have been used to endorse the idea that men have innate superiority over women.

Al-Tirmidhi verse 3272 has been invoked to support the domestic subservience of women. It would be hard to find a set of beliefs more diametrically opposed to women’s rights.

The popular application of Sharia law is even more misogynistic. Sharia law is often used to justify honor killings, the Islamic practice of male family members killing female family members for being “dishonorable”. Sharia law has also been used to maintain the legality of female genital mutilation.

I’d hold feminists in higher regard if they’d speak against these violations of women’s rights, instead of screeching about the ills of “man-splaining”, “man-spreading”, and “man-slamming”.

Actually, I wouldn’t mind seeing how a SlutWalk or Free the Nipple protest would go in a fundamentalist Islamic country. If precedent is anything to go by, it would probably result in a spate of lashings, stonings, and honor killings. How progressive.

You may be thinking “Lauren, why are you focusing on Islam? The Bible contains anti-women verses as well!” It’s true that a literal interpretation of the Bible would leave you with some negative attitudes towards women. However, Christianity has been moderated by hundreds of years of post-Enlightenment thought.

There are only a few thousand Christians trying to practice a textually accurate version of Christianity today, and there are a few hundred million Muslims trying to do the same.

Besides, much of the worst misogyny in Islam comes from Mohammed himself. I challenge you to find a section of the Bible where Jesus is said to beat his wife, behead women, or have sex with nine-year-olds.

Progressives need to stop treating Islam’s attitudes towards women with kid gloves. There’s nothing progressive about forbidding women to drive.

There’s nothing progressive about women being killed for adultery, or being stoned for the crime of being raped. And there’s nothing progressive about shoving Islamic misogyny under the rug to keep dangerous people placated.

So it’s up to you, progressives. Do you want to be branded an Islamophobe or a misogynist?


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commented 2016-01-30 00:33:12 -0500
I feel sorry for you.
commented 2016-01-29 01:50:42 -0500
And in response, you’re either a bigot or a nazi. It’s one, the other, or both.
commented 2016-01-27 19:21:36 -0500
I’m not sure what happened to this thread.
It is insane, that we even have to be talking about Shariah law. I don’t check my privilege ever in my own country, I celebrate it. But thanks anyway Trevor.
commented 2016-01-26 22:31:39 -0500
Vijay Rajan : “Lauren is a pycho (sic) female and validating why the Koran questions the judgement of women. She proudly marches around slutwalks trying to embarass (sic) feminists, but loudly espouses feminist principles in this article. In other words, no principles, (sic) just an attention whore.”

Can you now understand the mind of our enemy, Lauren?… This is why your slutwalk videos hurt my eyes. Islamic extremists, although they likely won’t use your videos as you didn’t fail badly enough, love showing videos of ‘dumb’ western women they find on the internet to their pupils to inflame hatred and lust among themselves. It is a part of the misogynist indoctrination they learn at older ages growing up.

The barely literate savage here has an indirect point. You are further providing them with ammo to justify their hatreds towards western women. Lauren, if you are going to attack feminism, you have to be nearly perfect, or your narrative will be ripped right from your hands. The right does not control the media, therefore we do not control the dialogue. You are literally stumbling on a minefield when you go to those events, even if you do have a point.
commented 2016-01-25 15:18:13 -0500
Let me see….I’m not an islamophobe because I’m not afraid of muslims… I love women so I’m not a misogynist…Hmmmm If I love women I must be a lesbian….
commented 2016-01-20 02:44:40 -0500
Real Men protect and cherish women, they do not beat and rape and murder and oppress them.
commented 2016-01-19 16:54:04 -0500
Just like every degenerate thing progs say the are OK with, Islamo-rape culture will have to damage them personally before they understand their attitudes come from sheltered ignorance.
commented 2016-01-19 13:55:06 -0500
Wait… what? We were talking about how Muslim men feel entitled to rape women, and Trevor Smith tells us to check our privilege?! So it’s a privilege to not be raped and/or murdered? And here I thought it was always a basic human right. I guess Trevor Smith doesn’t consider women to be human enough for human rights. Either he’s a Muslim, or the basic run-of-the-mill Western misogynist, blaming women for every problem in his life, including his inability to fit in with the rest of civilized society. Here’s some news for you Trevor, the reason why you don’t fit in is because of your nasty attitude towards half of the world’s population. It’s no one’s fault but your own that you’re a loser who can’t get laid, so stop blaming women for your pathetic life.

Misty, I’ve heard about these MRA douches from a couple of my guy friends who were mocking them. They showed me one of those sites and it was so unreal how delusional these idiots are when it comes to women, and the real world in general. No wonder they can relate to Islam and the Koran. They’re like the male version of extreme feminism, hating women like radical feminists hate men. When I first heard about MRA, (Men’s Rights Activists), I supported them thinking they were for father’s rights and helping male rape victims. Turns out that the majority are just bitter losers living in their mother’s basements who are pissed off that women don’t want to have sex with them. If they ever do bring up father’s or male rape victim’s rights, they still blame women, even though any laws that would favour mothers over fathers would have been made by ‘male’ law makers, and most male rape victims were raped by other men. Obviously they’re not really serious about men’s rights just like fake feminists aren’t serious about women’s rights, so neither group should be taken seriously at all. These handful of extremists on both sides will always be ignored and shunned by secure, intelligent, mature, and evolved men and women.
commented 2016-01-19 01:41:38 -0500
Trevor Smith you are just another sexist asshole. Check our privilege? We’ll do that as soon as we can walk the streets at night without having to worry about some creep trying to rape us or kidnap us and force us into human trafficking or men trying to pass legislation that restricts our rights to our own bodies. And now we have to bother with Muslim males and their barbaric religion that treats women as property and less than animals because nobody wants to do anything about these bastards entering our countries. We’re experiencing a higher standard of living than most males on the planet? What about you receiving more favor and human rights than any female who has ever lived just because you were born with something hanging between your legs? You are obviously one of those pathetic MRA whiners screaming about how white men are being oppressed when in fact white males are the only one who have never been systematically oppressed but were always the oppressors. Now you feel threatened that women and people of color are seen as the full fledged human beings they’ve always have been. You feel that progress with our rights is an attack on your unearned authority and fragile ego. So you and all misogynists like you can join the Muslim bastards. Take the Koran and shove it up your MRA ass.
commented 2016-01-19 01:18:57 -0500
liza, michelle, misty, check your priviledge. thanks to that oppressive patriarchy, you are experiencing a higher standard of living in Canada than most males on this planet. But lets keep hearing about being under attack, just for the fun of it. Maybe some dude committed some manspreading in your vicinity lately. Me, I’m going to give that Koran a read.
commented 2016-01-17 17:14:11 -0500
Vijay Rajan, if you are living in Canada you should leave now. We don’t recognize the Koran or Shariah law here. To live in Canada you have to abide by the Queens law. You have just failed the entry test, by posting this," Lauren is a pycho female and validating why the Koran questions the judgement of women." So, are you here on a visitor visa, student? If you have managed to get status, by lying to immigration, you could still be booted out. I heard our new PM. Justin say that lying to immigration upon entry can and will get you deported. If you are just a hateful second generation, then keep up the bad behaviour, it will take you where you need to go.
commented 2016-01-17 14:50:51 -0500
Vijay: I’m glad the Koran questions the judgement of women considering it was created specifically for psycho males… such as yourself. I agree with Misty about the need for real feminism. Unfortunately the humanity and liberties of women are still under attack today, and the infestation of Muslim men with their primitive ideologies is pushing us backwards and hindering us from moving towards an equal and modern society where women won’t have to fear every man she sees if she’s walking by herself in an isolated area, and gays don’t have to worry about being literally bashed. I will continues to stand up and defend my future daughters from psychotic misogynists, like any civilized and sane person would.
commented 2016-01-17 12:46:21 -0500
Vijay Rajan you are the reason why feminism is still needed. Real feminism not slut walks and idiocy like that but rather real feminism that fights against misogynistic pigs like you. The Koran has no business questioning the judgement of women when it’s the Muslim male pigs who’s judgement it should be questioning. Subhuman Muslim men who should be locked in cages because they can’t stop raping women and cutting off infidel men’s heads. From your post I’m guessing you are Muslim yourself or a Islam apologist who hates women. Do us a favor and go join ISIS and suicide bomb yourself among your fellow monsters. The less of you in the world the better the world will be.
commented 2016-01-17 00:17:29 -0500
Lauren is a pycho female and validating why the Koran questions the judgement of women. She proudly marches around slutwalks trying to embarass feminists, but loudly espouses feminist principles in this article. In other words, no principles, just an attention whore.
commented 2016-01-16 16:29:02 -0500
People like Theresa Corbin are a big part of the problem. What a load of crap drawing a parallel between Islam and feminism. This stuff just fuels the chaos,and confusion. As Erin Berney points out " fighting amongst ourselves over which religions are more or less moral and sexist than others." This infighting, keeps us distracted, which is what they want.

After reading Erin’s entire post ,the spinning in my head, from going around the maypole, momentarily stopped.
This comment of Erin’s, “So for me, misogyny and islamophobia are just distracting us from the real issue — the need to confront cultural lawlessness in our foreign affairs, national security and immigration policies, and educate new Canadians about the importance of the rule of law.” really cuts to the chase.

My question is, how as a country, do we translate a concise definition of what is expected in Canada, to anyone wanting to come here? It seems impossible when we have more than one rule of law here as it is, a set for our natives, a set for the rest of us, but now another set for the new Muslims arriving in droves. ‘Cultural lawlessness’ is going to be a huge problem here, if we don’t tighten up our own definitions of what we expect, and have a right to expect. Until the Trudeau legacy of multi-culturalism gone mad, gets stopped in its tracks, we haven’t a chance.

It is insane, that we even have to be talking about Shariah law.
commented 2016-01-16 10:21:15 -0500
That could be true but these liberal feminists are still cowards for believing that when the misogyny of Islam is so obvious. They refuse to look past what the Liberal politicians say even when there’s numerous story of what these horrible Muslim men do to women. The liberal feminists who sell out their sisters don’t get a free pass for choosing to remain ignorant and allowing the Muslim scourge to take over.
commented 2016-01-16 04:04:06 -0500
Could it have been possible that modern feminists have bought into the countless speeches on what IS NOT Islam?
commented 2016-01-15 13:56:47 -0500
Sam Young those kinds of feminists are weak and pathetic like all politically correct liberal cowards. Liberal feminists are not really feminists since they care more about Islam than they do about women’s rights otherwise they wouldn’t ever defend these things. Justin Trudeau openly said he is a feminist so it’s little wonder why liberal feminists would be ok with this terrible treatment of women while they call people like us Islamophobic when really we just have compassion and common sense for our fellow human beings and are horrified and want to stop this madness so women can live in peace from raping Islamist pigs and men don’t have to worry about their mothers and sisters becoming victims to Islam’s woman hating insanity. And of course we don’t want to have to worry about all the mass shootings and suicide bombing that is common with Muslim radicals like Europe does because of the Islam infestation taking over
commented 2016-01-15 13:28:21 -0500
To Sam Young,
If you have a problem with “anti-white” or “pro-mudlim” feminists, direct them to this 17 second clip:
commented 2016-01-15 11:55:27 -0500
Yes, I am an “Islamophobe”. Anyone that isn’t very concerned with this death, rape and subjugation of women culture , needs to be. I’m phobic that the end game of world government is to first destroy christianity by flooding the West with Muslims and Sharia law with the ultimate goal of a one world religion, called “Government”.
commented 2016-01-14 20:01:58 -0500
Modern white feminists have this hatred of all things white. This leads to a self loathing, and the feeling of looking outward for a sense of authenticity and justice. Unfortunately, feminists are not great at coming up with solutions this side of merely opposing what is in existance. As a result, they adopt all opposing views as superior to the white narrative, even if it means embracing the oppressive nature of Islam.

It was not always this way. Shortly after 911, western feminists raised the issue of how muslim women were being treated. The response from the muslim women was that they were not weak. I think this shut the western feminists up for good.
commented 2016-01-14 08:39:06 -0500
For anyone interested, re: my former comment on misogyny in conservative Christianity,(as opposed to Islamist misogyny)…instead of the web address I gave previously, go to http://www.sermonaudio.com and Search at top of page: “Domestic Violence and Abuse” by Jeff Crippen..former police officer and now pastor.
Some titles are “Worship me or else is the abuser’s command”…and later “The abuser as a servant of righteousness”… and “The abuser as Jezebel- women as abusers”…etc! Often female Christians are also misogynistic in protection of their husband’s position of power. Incidentally, I do not, accept Mr. Crippen’s “Complementarian” perspective as the solution, but rather as the ideological cause, of the problem.

Until Christian’s face up to the ongoing problem of misogyny, violence and abuse in their midst, rooted in Complementarian teaching, they cannot make a true ideological stand against the same in Islam.
commented 2016-01-14 08:14:35 -0500
In reference to the attacks in Europe:
“…elimination of the growing threat to the West…will only begin to happen when people realize that such mass public gang rapes represent the normalization of “Islamist” ways and are also another face of jihad."

E HEATHER: I fail to see how Islam CAN be moderate unless it has thrown away the Koran and reinvented itself completely. The language of their book is immoderate on every page…what is left for the moderates to believe? I would really like to know. In Christianity there is little fodder for violence and immense full blown teaching on love, joy, gentleness, moderation, kindness, goodness,“oppress not”, “set the captive free”, even to the point of loving your enemies and ‘BLESS THEM THAT CURSE YOU’…It is no stretch to ‘make’ Christianity moderate…but Islam, for those who know the book…how can you moderate that?

So far I conclude that moderate Muslims are not Muslim at all…but simply believers in a different god that suits their purposes. As such they would be much better off with the God of the Bible.
commented 2016-01-14 00:17:21 -0500
Erin Berney I agree with your post in that the biggest issues at hand are the atrocities being committed in the middle East. I was simply trying to argue that more moderate Muslims are no different than Christians, and that what is going on the middle east is a result of a violent culture, not specifically Islam.
commented 2016-01-13 22:43:19 -0500
Like talking to a brick wall.
commented 2016-01-13 19:44:19 -0500
Progressives are definitely misogynists, or they wouldn’t insist on women having the ‘RIGHT’ to live in a cloth cage.

re: Heather…you are wrong about men and women in scripture…in the beginning God made man and women in His own image…and gave THEM to have dominion…over the earth…they were equal in the beginning…the only reason things fell apart was because they chose to follow Satan instead of God…when they return to God it is incumbent on both genders to return to equality…unfortunately this doesn’t often happen..(hence Biblical feminism)…Jesus never treated women as inferiors, however some of Paul’s writings have been used to justify treating women as subordinates (even though I doubt Paul had any intent that this would be the case.)

The final word in Christianity is “submit yourselves one to another in the fear of God”. “In Christ there is neither male nor female, bond or free, Jew or Gentile…” and when it comes to lording it over one another Jesus said " IT SHALL NOT BE SO AMONG YOU"…Misogyny in Christianity is aberrant and needs to be rooted out…but it is there, nevertheless.

Lauren mistakenly says “There are only a few thousand Christians trying to practice a textually accurate version of Christianity today , and there are a few hundred million Muslims trying to do the same.” This is a severe understatement regarding some Baptist, fundamentalist, presbyterian, Conservative and reformed branches of Christianity…the numbers are very much higher than a ’few thousand"…Lauren…the Southern Baptist Convention alone has 15.75 million members and they just (in 2000 A.D.) threw out all female pastors, ruled women with doctorates may no longer teach in their seminaries, and that all women must submit to their husbands.

But I don’t agree with the premise at the beginning here…I didn’t ‘plant’ misogynists in this article to call Lauren out…but it is pretty obvious that misogynists and Islamists are cut from the same cloth…and in Islam, I don’t doubt that there are female misogynists aplenty, as well.
And no, Lauren, Christian misogyny doesn’t go as far as Islamist misogyny, in this you are correct, but Christian misogyny is alive and well in the more conservative churches that number in the millions and that insist that for women to be Biblical they must be in subjection to men, silent, and keep their heads and bodies covered to ‘protect’ those licentious men from the evil women and show them who is boss! It is less misogynistic only by degrees. Because of teachings like these, many Christian wives are beaten and abused and then told by pastors to suck it up… If you doubt me see:

The above is a lengthy study of misogyny in the churches by a former police officer who is now a pastor…this is not a reflecton on Christianity or on Christ, but on “the heart of man…deceitful and desperately wicked.”
commented 2016-01-13 19:41:09 -0500
Marty Smith I’m not calling anyone out, and i’m not a misogynist nor a feminist, not sure where you got that from… I’ve been a supporter of Lauren for a while now, she’s awesome :)

Joe Boudreault I do have experience with the bible, I was raised in a conservative christian household and was one until I was 15. I also attended a catholic HS for all four years, i’ve read a lot from the bible. I’m not attempting to cherry pick, the passages I provided are in the bible, and they do promote misogyny. If the bible was truly that wonderful, they wouldn’t be there at all. The positive passages do not negate the negative ones, it’s the other way around. I made no arbitrary claims, as I have provided many examples from the bible where misogyny takes place, and I can provide many more.

Christianity does promise redemption, as long as you don’t talk back to your parents, use blasphemy, or cheat on your spouse, then it promises death. Leviticus 20:9 for example. Also thank you for summing up your argument with calling me insane.. really adds to the legitimacy of your post. :(
commented 2016-01-13 15:58:14 -0500
Marty Smith I know and I agree with you. That’s why I pointed out not all Christians are misogynists and I was thinking about Christian men when I wrote at the end that Islam is dangerous for men too. Extreme Christians do exist though. I’ve met a few of the really radical ones but I also met many more good ones. Just like the feminist movement there are bad egg Christians that ruin people’s perception for the entire group. The difference is that the people who bash Christians don’t look past the bad eggs. Otherwise they would realize that most of them are kind people who want to keep everyone safe from dangerous things like Islam. With Islam it’s the opposite. The people who support Islam can only see the good muslims and don’t or refuse to see that most are rotten eggs.
commented 2016-01-13 15:17:49 -0500
Christian conservative misogyny?


Look at Mass media. The same one claiming the world is full of roses and righteousness, while hiding the true nature of such threats from a region about 400 years behind us. They are both yelling you Chris tans are savages while trying to hide Islamic savagery at any chance. The only real points on your side are groups like the Branch Davidians, or Warren Jeffs’ radical Mormons. There is nothing conservative about either of them. Both were neo-Christian radicals. Women are caught between radical Islam and our broken media culture. Christians are a drop in the pan.

This isn’t 1979. This is 2016. Everyone’s attitudes are far different. Christians are getting hammered everywhere, butchered in some places even, yet you claim they are still a problem. Come on…